Team Fortress

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

First off, this is more of a feedback type thread (as of now) so if it should be moved please do so.

What's everybody's opinion on a Team Fortress style mode? I just realized we basically have 1/2 of classes already:

-Scout (stock class person with pump/pistol)
-Soldier (CO2 tube launchers)
-Heavy (high-end electric force-fed marker)
-Sniper (First Strike rounds)

Heavy's could be "updated" to use Double Troubles/Quadzilla's or something like that.

Classes easy to implement:
-Medic
Scenario medic definition:

Actually there are medics much like you describe in many scenario games. Once you are eliminated, they come up, wipe the hit, and wither punch your card or somehow record that you were "saved".

Head shots usually mean you're beyond saving

-Spy
Give everyone armbands. Spies are allowed to carry both. The question would be on "changing" teams rule.


Classes a bit more difficult:
-Engineer
Making the sentry would be almost impossible. We could make it that he can construct a mortar. I think an easier/better implementation would be that he can "heal" your gun. If Homey B's idea goes through, marker hits would mean that your marker is out of play. One could go to the engineer to "heal" their marker like the medic heals you. That way, if you shoot someone and their marker, they have to be double-healed. The engineer isn't nearly as useful, but it still makes things kinda strategic with him. Open to suggestions on this one.

-Pyro
Something like these:

It's basically like the pressurized water guns. You have a container that you fill with paint (see the post I made in the launcher thread). You then pressurized it. Ball-valve or a trigger release and you're good. Would take some constructing, but could be pretty awesome.


The demo-man has a few options:
-just eliminate it
-make it so that he's the only one who can arm/diffuse a bomb in a Counter-Strike style match
-make it so that they're the only ones allowed launchers like this:
Revolver Grenade Launcher



We could make it so that each team is only allowed so many of each class. People with "regular" markers would be the medic/engineer/spy/new class?

Thoughts?

[[PX]Kal Bob]

Sounds Good to me.
The Sentry could act like a wall if one is put down.

eg, it can fire, but to move past it, you have to take it out first.
This could be via hits or another engineer has to remove it.

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

Yeah, the only problem I see with this mode is that if we make it too complicated we would likely needs refs. I'm just kinda looking to get the spirit of the game rather than the actual game.

Ie. if two snipers/pistols show up, one goes on each team, etc.

[[PX]IronFist]

This could be a lot of fun. Like you were saying though we would need to make sure it wasn't too complicated or have several refs on the field (or both). Otherwise I could see people getting confused.

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

Yeah, I'm just looking to bounce ideas right now. KISS principle I think is key. Anything else we could easily add?

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

I already have the equipment for a flame thrower. It's a chemical sprayer I borrowed from Bob to test my theory. It is pretty cumbersome, but that helps diminish it's overpowered capabilities.

I think if we could secure 20 people and setup the teams/roles ahead of time, this would make for a great special day of play.

I will write up a more detailed list of each role and its responsibilities and post a poll here and on Facebook tonight.

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

Yeah, I got thinking about this on the ride home. What if the classes were something like this:



Scout
-pistol or pump (ie. TPX or Trracer)
-1 grenade allowed (ie. smoke or paint)
-50 round hopper max gun capacity (ie. hand hopper or tube feed)
-max 1 pod of additional ammo (ie. 140 rounds in a pod or 14 tubes)
-no more than 2 guns (ie. akimbo pistols or pump with a pistol)

Soldier
-launcher (ie. like Neb's/Homey J's)
-unlimited nerf/water balloons/whatever they're launching (ie. like Neb's/Homey J's)
-mechanical/semi gun with a gravity hopper (ie. Phenom with a shake and shoot, 98 custom with a shake and shoot)
-3 grenades (ie. paint or smoke)
-max 2 pods of additional ammo (ie. 280 rounds)
-side-arm allowed

Medic
-healing tool (ie. punch clippers for cards like they do in scenarios to heal players)
-mechanical/semi gun with a cyclone/force feed hopper (ie. phenom with a cyclone, autococker with a Revvy)
-3 grenades (ie. paint or smoke)
-max 3 pods of additional ammo (ie. 420 rounds)
-no side-arm allowed

Engineer
-fixing tool (ie. punch clippers for cards like they do in scenarios to fix guns or buildings)
-mechanical/semi gun with a cyclone/force feed hopper (ie. phenom with a cyclone, autococker with a Revvy)
-3 grenades (ie. paint or smoke)
-max 3 pods of additional ammo (ie. 420 rounds)
-side-arm allowed

Sniper
-only player allowed to use First Strikes (ie. increased range)
-pistol/pump/mag fed marker (ie. limited ROF to encourage sniping)
-2 grenades (ie. paint or smoke)
-max 30 First Strike rounds & 1 pod of paint (ie. 160 total rounds)
-side-arm allowed

Pyro
-paint thrower
-mechanical semi with 50 round hopper or a side-arm
-2 grenades (ie. paint or smoke)
-max 2 pods (ie. max 280 rounds)
-side-arm depends on above

Heavy
-modern high-end electro with a force fed hopper
-6 grenades (ie. paint or smoke)
-minimum of 5 pods (ie. weigh them down so that it's harder to move or make them wear a weight equivalent. So 700 round minimum)
-no side-arm allowed

Spy
-dual arm-bands (ie. to switch teams)
-mechanical/semi gun with a cyclone/force feed hopper (ie. phenom with a cyclone, autococker with a Revvy)
-3 grenades (ie. paint or smoke)
-max 3 pods of additional ammo (ie. 420 rounds)
-side-arm allowed

Demoman
-only one who can disarm/set an RFID bomb
-mechanical/semi gun with a cyclone/force feed hopper (ie. phenom with a cyclone, autococker with a Revvy)
-as many grenades as they can carry (ie. paint or smoke)
-max 2 pods of additional ammo (ie. 420 rounds)
-side-arm allowed



Thoughts? The guidelines are the maximum armament. Say a medic, for whatever reason, wanted to play with a pump. They could. However, if they wanted to play with a high-end electro they couldn't. We can't really change our physical prowess so armament limitations and skill limitations are what I think are the best ways to set classes. Would really like ideas on this as I think we could pull this off.

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

Things to add or change:

Scout:
- No constant air (12gs only)

Soldier
- Rockets have a 5m area of effect
- Cyclone feeder allowed, but mechanical semi-auto triggers only
- Extra pod allowed if you don't have a launcher

Medic
- Max 1 per team
- Healing tool would be visual only to prove you are the medic (syringe)
- Medics are the only class that can return to spawn area to automatically re-spawn

Engineer
- Max 1 per team
- Fixing tool would be visual only to prove you are the engineer (wrench)

Sniper
- fine as is

Pyro
- Probably pistol only because the paint thrower is too big

Heavy
- Max 1 per team
- Auto-trigger allowed

Spy
- Might not work since small group = I know what team you should be on

Demoman
- Other team members can dis-arm bombs or else you get 2 demos per team camping each bomb site.


One game-style thing I would change would be the Medic/Engineer punch card system. With our limited attendance, we would just run on the honor system.

Wounded people could travel to the medic depending on their injury ie: leg hits can't move, torso or arms can walk but not run to medic with gun in air (can't fire while injured), and head shots would have to be healed AND return to the spawn area.

Damaged guns would be out of commission until brought to the engineer, but you can run and should not put your gun over your head. You are still able to capture flags/arm/disarm bombs.

Another would be the pod limits. I know that a lot of people don't even carry 1 pod for a regular game, so unless we set the game time at 30 - 45 minutes we may never use that much paint.

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

I think the Scout running only 12's is fine, I just didn't know how well it would go over. If people are fine with it, then we're good.

I disagree on the Soldier in regards to a force-fed hopper (ie. cyclone/halo). He'd be way too powerful. He has the same armament as the "middle" classes (ie. medic, engineer, etc.) plus an unlimited ammo weapon that has a 5m radius? A shake-and-shoot gives him sufficient firepower while still encouraging the use of the launcher. A Proto Primo plus an Automag ULT meets the definition and would still be more than a formidable enough force.

I really like the Medic and Engineer clarifications.

I agree on the Pyro, but would reserve judgement until we see how powerful the "flame-thrower" is. If it only shoots 10ft. for 10 seconds, that's a pretty crappy weapon. If it shoots 200ft for 2 minutes, well,..........

Would the Heavy be better with a bps capped ramp/semi? Fast, but a set speed?

Spy, I'll admit, is pretty crappy but he was crappy in the game anyways

I can see your side of the point on the Demoman. So would it be they're the only ones to set a bomb? Make them an offensive-styled player? Because if everyone can set bombs and everyone can defuse bombs his only advantage is unlimited grenades which is pretty much useless. Give him an offensive role (ie. the only one who can set bombs)? Or just eliminate him? His usefulness in the game is blowing up passages. Incorporate that somehow?

The punch card makes it so that healing someone/something takes some time (ie. you have to find the card and punch it so at least 10 seconds). If we want a faster paced game, sure just have the medic wipe off the paint or the engineer touch the gun. Group call on that one.

I'm fine with those medic rules, but I think it's super complicated and likely wouldn't work. We couldn't even get a pump-and-pistol event done right
I'd say face-shot = go to spawn
Other shot = sit still yelling medic unless you call yourself "dead" and go to spawn
Whether we put a time limit on one's heal-able time is up in the air.

Re-spawn from spawn at a set time interval or as soon as you're back and tagged in?

I agree with the engineer healing.

Yeah, I was thinking these would be large, longer games. We'd need at least 14 people to pull this off, anyways. I was thinking more of large scale woodsball game (ie. Homey B's backwoods, my Dad's grassy plains, or his woods). I don't think this style of play would be easy to pull off with the "tactical" urban nature of KTPPG, but I might be alone in that opinion.

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

You're right about the soldier and the shake & shoot once I think about it more. Although there are currently only 3 launchers available.

For the Pyro, I meant LARGE, not powerful. I have not tested it's effective range yet, but as long as you pump the backpack, it keeps spraying.

Heavy: yes, auto trigger, but limited to NPPL standard fire rates.

Medic / Engineer: there would be a few seconds of feigned "healing" instead of just a tag. I guess if there was a body shot you could head back to spawn, but be healed along the way if you run into a medic except in the case of a headshot.

Re-spawns would be 10 seconds from when you get to spawn.

This definitely sounds like a whole day of play, as long as everyone knows it's a theme day ahead of time.

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

What do we mean by the heavy's "auto-trigger?" I'm confused.

League Rules:
NPPL rules as of 2011 = semi capped at 15bps
(I'll ignore the new Virtue locked board rule of 2012 as that won't apply to us. The type of fire and rate stayed the same)
PSP rules as of 2012 = ramping capped at 12.5bps

I'm fine with either. Tourney lock is about the only way you can enforce it, though.

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

apologies: Electronically Assisted Trigger

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. Should the heavy's fire mode be limited to one of these modes?

NPPL = semi capped at 15bps
PSP = ramping capped at 12.5bps
CPPL = semi uncapped
CXBL = semi OR ramping capped at 15bps
Millenium = ramping where user must maintain 7.5bps and then it ramps up to 15bps

I'm fine with any of them. We'd just need to decide on one. CPPL is the easiest (ie. it's currently what we run). The fact that it's Canadian is kinda cool, too. We could always instigate NPPL if the Heavy was too powerful. Or make them wear a weighted backpack of sorts to slow them down.

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. Should the heavy's fire mode be limited to one of these modes?

NPPL = semi capped at 15bps
PSP = ramping capped at 12.5bps
CPPL = semi uncapped
CXBL = semi OR ramping capped at 15bps
Millenium = ramping where user must maintain 7.5bps and then it ramps up to 15bps

Heavy: limited to NPPL standard fire rates.

With the same safety that we have ALWAYS had in mind, I'm OK with NPPL or CPPL as they are both semi-auto electronically assisted modes.

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

CPPL is the easiest then.