Well these political topics are always fun on the board, So what the hell. Here we go. Lets try to keep it somewhat civil.
For instance lets avoid, "Liberals Suck", "Harper sucks", "Eat my ass, NDP" and so forth. Any of this and I will have to delete the posts.
Though please do point out mistakes in the party platforms that you see.
Federal Election Vote 2004
Moderator: [PX]Kal Bob
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[PX]Kal Bob
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Federal Election Vote 2004
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Elitism- It's Lonely At The Top. But It's Comforting To Look Down Upon Everyone At The Bottom.
Elitism- It's Lonely At The Top. But It's Comforting To Look Down Upon Everyone At The Bottom.
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THE JEW (RaVeN)
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Samurai
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I honestly don't know who to vote for, not because I'm indecisive, but because I don't trust any of them as far as I can throw them. And quite frankly I don't really see a difference between any of them. The Liberals seem to fall toward the uber liberal end of the spectrum, but the Conservatives, in my opinion, fall into the mega liberal end. My ideals fall into the conservative range, but I don't like the conservative party (too liberal). The NDP has proven themselves to be trouble in the past, and I won't even say more than that.
This all comes back to my belief that the political system is too flawed to be effective. It doesn't matter which side gains power, because once they do they will work for their own gain to the detriment of society. I simply point towards the Marijuana party and rest my case (they are all dealers who want to be legitimate business men). I can't think of the last time that public opinion really made a difference. Any government that promises to have public votes on all important policy issues will get my vote. We have the technology to have cheap, safe, and honest votes by using the internet and personal passwords. True democracy can only work in very small, closely knit, primitive communities, and technologically advanced ones. We have now reached a point where we can exercise true democracy with relatively little effort, so if we want to give it a shot, I would say now is the time.
I know this is not exactly in line with the topic of the election, but it deals with one of the main problems that people have with the political system, and voter indecision. If people don't make a difference, other than choosing which party is going to screw the country, then the system doesn't work. Many people see this and simply don't vote. My cynicism about the current system really stems from a hope that democracy could work. The real problem is that very few polititians would ever give their power to the people, and the ones who take power, who could do it are the ones with the most personal ambition. Doesn't politics just seem like one big conflict of interests?
This all comes back to my belief that the political system is too flawed to be effective. It doesn't matter which side gains power, because once they do they will work for their own gain to the detriment of society. I simply point towards the Marijuana party and rest my case (they are all dealers who want to be legitimate business men). I can't think of the last time that public opinion really made a difference. Any government that promises to have public votes on all important policy issues will get my vote. We have the technology to have cheap, safe, and honest votes by using the internet and personal passwords. True democracy can only work in very small, closely knit, primitive communities, and technologically advanced ones. We have now reached a point where we can exercise true democracy with relatively little effort, so if we want to give it a shot, I would say now is the time.
I know this is not exactly in line with the topic of the election, but it deals with one of the main problems that people have with the political system, and voter indecision. If people don't make a difference, other than choosing which party is going to screw the country, then the system doesn't work. Many people see this and simply don't vote. My cynicism about the current system really stems from a hope that democracy could work. The real problem is that very few polititians would ever give their power to the people, and the ones who take power, who could do it are the ones with the most personal ambition. Doesn't politics just seem like one big conflict of interests?
Until you find something worth dying for, you're not really living.
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[PX]Kal Bob
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[Fallen]TSB
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choosing which party is going to screw the country... yup I agree this line for me is how i feel and it is pissing me off a bit... I have not voted before due to lack of careing .. this year I said ok i am going to vote...
but for who??
I feel that any party i vote for this year is going to be a wait of time.. I more or less dont like any of them..
now I am affrade to waist my vote and vote for like the green party due to the fact that if to many people are like "this sucks I am going to vote for some party that will never win" then that party might just win and I dont want that to happen..
More or less I dont know who to vote for becuase "choosing which party is going to screw the country" I dont want to do..
SO at this point I am thinking.. and I am sure a lot of people are thinking this as well "Fuck it I am not going to vote and screw this this more"
but for who??
I feel that any party i vote for this year is going to be a wait of time.. I more or less dont like any of them..
now I am affrade to waist my vote and vote for like the green party due to the fact that if to many people are like "this sucks I am going to vote for some party that will never win" then that party might just win and I dont want that to happen..
More or less I dont know who to vote for becuase "choosing which party is going to screw the country" I dont want to do..
SO at this point I am thinking.. and I am sure a lot of people are thinking this as well "Fuck it I am not going to vote and screw this this more"
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The one thing i would like to know is what excatly each party is going to do for the country. I'm not a big political person and all i've been hearing is the crap that each party is going to do, so can you guys please explain in detail what each party is saying their going to do but wont.
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Samurai
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Liberal Party Platform: http://www.liberal.ca/platform_e_1.aspx
Conservative Platform: http://www.conservative.ca/english/issues.asp
Check around the sites for more details. I'm not really a political person either, or I would have told you about the stuff my self. I just popped over to the sites and still have to read what they are saying. Both sites have numerous pages that describe their "ideals."
This quote is from the Liberal platform. The official stance of the Liberal party is to ensure the above. Note that Iraq is not mentioned in this quote (I copied the entire point). This is a matter of simple hypocrisy.
Also they Liberals are going to ensure that Canada has a strong economy, and can be a leader in the world. One thing I know is that governments are not the primary job creators, and often spend more money than they make, thus weakening the economy with their foolhardy plans.
The conservatives claim to act for the good of Canada and its development apart and in conjunction with the US. It seems that they are trying to make us more American all the time. More Hypocrisy.
They say that they will lower taxes, but that will only increase the defficit. THe only tax that should be reduced immediately is the tax on gas and oil, but it's too profitable to let go.
Conservative Platform: http://www.conservative.ca/english/issues.asp
Check around the sites for more details. I'm not really a political person either, or I would have told you about the stuff my self. I just popped over to the sites and still have to read what they are saying. Both sites have numerous pages that describe their "ideals."
A world where the international community accepts an obligation to protect people from deadly oppression by their own government. What happened in Rwanda and Bosnia, and in other dark instances throughout history, is simply unacceptable. We need new rules to make it clear when international intervention is justified to protect citizens from tyranny.
This quote is from the Liberal platform. The official stance of the Liberal party is to ensure the above. Note that Iraq is not mentioned in this quote (I copied the entire point). This is a matter of simple hypocrisy.
Also they Liberals are going to ensure that Canada has a strong economy, and can be a leader in the world. One thing I know is that governments are not the primary job creators, and often spend more money than they make, thus weakening the economy with their foolhardy plans.
The conservatives claim to act for the good of Canada and its development apart and in conjunction with the US. It seems that they are trying to make us more American all the time. More Hypocrisy.
They say that they will lower taxes, but that will only increase the defficit. THe only tax that should be reduced immediately is the tax on gas and oil, but it's too profitable to let go.
Until you find something worth dying for, you're not really living.
well i must say i am much more politically active in this federal election then ever before. Mainly because my job actually focusses on the election so i do know a fair deal about what everone is saying because i have to watch 3 different news channels a day as well as cbc newsworld (which always highlights platform stuff)
well let me make a few minor corrections to samuri's last post
while the conservatives are cutting INCOME tax they are raising GST by 25% and thus offsetting some of their tax cuts. As well they are giving a $2000 credit per child for middle income families.... but wait before you all come to the conclusion this is a pro-conservative msg (as mine generally tend to be) I am actually going to side with Paul's traditional stance of NDP
however here is a summation of the conservative platform in a nutshell
1) cut income taxes
2) tax benifits for each child in the home
3) replace all the shite equipment we have in the military
4) he has put a large amount to health care (more then he has to the military contrary to what a lot of media focus on)
5) he wants to scrap the koyoto accord and enforce our own emmisions standard
6) he wants to scrap the gun registry
7) he is getting rid of corporate welfare
this despite the fact that they are in favor of gay marriages, however i sincerely believe what jack layton says and he has many ideas which i think canada should go towards such as incentive to get the vehicles in canada to go green. Also he has outlined that he wishes to build in turbines here in the deep south ontario. As well he says (and as a long-term student i hope) tha t he is going to cut tutions.
here is a basic summation for the NDP
1) money for city infrastructure
2) lower tution
3) lots more money for health care
4) change the canada health act to get rid of 'queue' jumping
5) get vehicles green
6) build wind power (think they stole these two from the green party)
7) settle the gay marriage thing once and for all in favor of
As for the liberals their word means jack squat to me. This is due to SEVERAL very dirty tactics they have tried this year such as sending demonstrators to other parties rallies and actually getting physical (throwing punches ect) as well as sending their own MP's to disrupt conservative press conferences. Not only that they are constantly citing LIBERAL polsters for their numbers which, if you ask anyone in the political science department , would say that they are getting desperate with this act. However for those who wish to know what they are CLAIMING to do here is a basic summation.
1) reduce waiting times (gee does this sound like a page out of the NDP anyone?)
2) they want to 'fix' the child care situation. (interestingly enough no one seems to know exactly WHAT the plan to do about this)
3) this is unofficaly of course but they want to fawk the Bloc (which of course i am all for) but there have been a bit of talk about martin taking aim at bloc policies ect
4) Martin wants to "strengthen norad" once again however i watched both of the debates (english and french) and each time he was asked what that means he dodged the question (which brings me to another thing i HATE about martin.... he never answers the freaking questions)
as for the green party i dont really know or care. they havent been getting much if any press coverage which as previously stated is the focus of my job. And well the bloc is pretty much useless in reviewing because they dont run anywhere outside of quebec (although maybe they should so we can kick those damn bastards out of the country once and for all to shut them up) but i digress
hope that helps
well let me make a few minor corrections to samuri's last post
while the conservatives are cutting INCOME tax they are raising GST by 25% and thus offsetting some of their tax cuts. As well they are giving a $2000 credit per child for middle income families.... but wait before you all come to the conclusion this is a pro-conservative msg (as mine generally tend to be) I am actually going to side with Paul's traditional stance of NDP
however here is a summation of the conservative platform in a nutshell
1) cut income taxes
2) tax benifits for each child in the home
3) replace all the shite equipment we have in the military
4) he has put a large amount to health care (more then he has to the military contrary to what a lot of media focus on)
5) he wants to scrap the koyoto accord and enforce our own emmisions standard
6) he wants to scrap the gun registry
7) he is getting rid of corporate welfare
this despite the fact that they are in favor of gay marriages, however i sincerely believe what jack layton says and he has many ideas which i think canada should go towards such as incentive to get the vehicles in canada to go green. Also he has outlined that he wishes to build in turbines here in the deep south ontario. As well he says (and as a long-term student i hope) tha t he is going to cut tutions.
here is a basic summation for the NDP
1) money for city infrastructure
2) lower tution
3) lots more money for health care
4) change the canada health act to get rid of 'queue' jumping
5) get vehicles green
6) build wind power (think they stole these two from the green party)
7) settle the gay marriage thing once and for all in favor of
As for the liberals their word means jack squat to me. This is due to SEVERAL very dirty tactics they have tried this year such as sending demonstrators to other parties rallies and actually getting physical (throwing punches ect) as well as sending their own MP's to disrupt conservative press conferences. Not only that they are constantly citing LIBERAL polsters for their numbers which, if you ask anyone in the political science department , would say that they are getting desperate with this act. However for those who wish to know what they are CLAIMING to do here is a basic summation.
1) reduce waiting times (gee does this sound like a page out of the NDP anyone?)
2) they want to 'fix' the child care situation. (interestingly enough no one seems to know exactly WHAT the plan to do about this)
3) this is unofficaly of course but they want to fawk the Bloc (which of course i am all for) but there have been a bit of talk about martin taking aim at bloc policies ect
4) Martin wants to "strengthen norad" once again however i watched both of the debates (english and french) and each time he was asked what that means he dodged the question (which brings me to another thing i HATE about martin.... he never answers the freaking questions)
as for the green party i dont really know or care. they havent been getting much if any press coverage which as previously stated is the focus of my job. And well the bloc is pretty much useless in reviewing because they dont run anywhere outside of quebec (although maybe they should so we can kick those damn bastards out of the country once and for all to shut them up) but i digress
hope that helps
Gentlemen, we got 20 calls about the David Hyde-Pierce incident. And as you know, one call equals a billion people, which means 20 billion people were offended by this
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THE JEW (RaVeN)
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Dude, when you say "raise GST by 25%," do you mean:
1). GST = 25%
or
2). GST = 7% + (7% X 25%)
= 8.75%
Cuz option 1 is a hecka lot of money. If GST = 25%, no tax break would be worth it. I think you mean option 2, but I'm just checking here.
My aside. I REALLY cannot figure out 1 thing about the Liberals this time. The economy has been great in the past decade. I'm not saying that it's because of the Liberals or cr@ppy management south of the border. However, it would only seem smart to me if I were a Liberal (especially Martin the former finance minister) to laud how the Liberal government brought Canada to its prosperity of today (or something like that). This election has been plagued by non-issues. Why not try to accent your perceived strengths?
EDIT:
I'd still like the answer to my original post.
1). GST = 25%
or
2). GST = 7% + (7% X 25%)
= 8.75%
Cuz option 1 is a hecka lot of money. If GST = 25%, no tax break would be worth it. I think you mean option 2, but I'm just checking here.
My aside. I REALLY cannot figure out 1 thing about the Liberals this time. The economy has been great in the past decade. I'm not saying that it's because of the Liberals or cr@ppy management south of the border. However, it would only seem smart to me if I were a Liberal (especially Martin the former finance minister) to laud how the Liberal government brought Canada to its prosperity of today (or something like that). This election has been plagued by non-issues. Why not try to accent your perceived strengths?
EDIT:
I'd still like the answer to my original post.
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I would agree with the jew on the second part of the post. the liberals seem to be more interested in making the other parts look bad and not too interested in trying to get what's they are about or whats so good about them out this time around. Honestly i've heard more about the Conservitave party than anything about the liberals.
Making the decision to have a child is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body.
JEW: Early vote is 18,19, 21 as for where thats up to you lol
as per the tax thing i hope your engineering math is better then your political math... i dont know how you can raise the gst by 25% and come up wit a gst OF 25% that just doesnt make mathmatical sense (unless of course the gst was already 20.5%)
as for the liberals they make plenty of news however.... at least the news here in windsor is very anti conservative... especailly the cbc. down here its the liberals this the liberals that... it atually makes me sick.... as per focasing on the economy that baffles me too something so obvious maybe they think it speaks for itself?
who knows... lately with everything the liberals are doing (including having their spokes person being the FOUNDER of the Bloc in quebec which is just totally beyond me) nothing they are doing makes ANY sense... as a poltical scientist i just can pull a strategy out of their moves.... it seems to me as if they are seriously scrambling
as per the tax thing i hope your engineering math is better then your political math... i dont know how you can raise the gst by 25% and come up wit a gst OF 25% that just doesnt make mathmatical sense (unless of course the gst was already 20.5%)
as for the liberals they make plenty of news however.... at least the news here in windsor is very anti conservative... especailly the cbc. down here its the liberals this the liberals that... it atually makes me sick.... as per focasing on the economy that baffles me too something so obvious maybe they think it speaks for itself?
who knows... lately with everything the liberals are doing (including having their spokes person being the FOUNDER of the Bloc in quebec which is just totally beyond me) nothing they are doing makes ANY sense... as a poltical scientist i just can pull a strategy out of their moves.... it seems to me as if they are seriously scrambling
Gentlemen, we got 20 calls about the David Hyde-Pierce incident. And as you know, one call equals a billion people, which means 20 billion people were offended by this
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THE JEW (RaVeN)
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i'm sick of all the parties lying
there is only one party that i believe is telling the truth and luckily i can vote for them in oxford
sure the rest are saying what you want to hear but when will they do what you want them to do
my vote this year is for Bender
plain and simple... they have one goal
we've seen what other parties can do and they always screw up... lets give someone else a chance to shine
there is only one party that i believe is telling the truth and luckily i can vote for them in oxford
sure the rest are saying what you want to hear but when will they do what you want them to do
my vote this year is for Bender
plain and simple... they have one goal
we've seen what other parties can do and they always screw up... lets give someone else a chance to shine
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THE JEW (RaVeN)
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Just got surveyed for the newspapers on my thoughts on this election.
If you see the Star wondering why some guy in downtown T.O. is overtly concerned with farming issues, you'll know who it is.
If you see the Star wondering why some guy in downtown T.O. is overtly concerned with farming issues, you'll know who it is.
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***** /(__)==JEW==(__)\
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[PX]IronFist
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