Outrageous! Teacher fired....

Tempus · Post by **Tempus** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 8:08 am

Hey guys just a lil blurb that this message will be offensive to some so if your easily upset by text turn away now

BC- Sept 14/03 a local school board fired a teacher this past week. What was his crime? During the summer holidays he wrote to the editor of his paper about the concerns he had with the new curriculum on homosexuality.

Talk about infringment on freedom of speech! the local homosexuals called the school board and got this guy fired FOR WRITING HIS OPINION ON HIS OWN TIME (not even to his students) WTF is that!?!?! seriously this is bad news guys. They are also pushing through bill C 250.. this is a horrible bill indeed! look it up for yourselves...
this following on the heels of the libral government promising that they wont 'impose this on anyone' and that they will 'have respect for religious beliefs'... on that note think about this

Ontario- Sept 25/03 an early prom was held this year for the in lew of one supposed to be last June. St. Clair Catholic school board has been FORCED to rehold a prom for the 3 homosexuals in the school even though the Catholic Church is admament against homosexuality.

For any who share my belief in freedom of expression this is scary indeed! i cant blieve they are just steam-rolling this through the House and into parliment!

If you are at all politically inclined (and even if your not) get on the phone call yer damn MP and tell him you dont want him to vote possitive on bill c 250

[Fallen]Thanatos · Post by **[Fallen]Thanatos** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 2:09 pm

I agree this is total BS man. When the election is over i will be on the phone. hell i can even tolk to Ernie in person, im at his office anuff.

THE JEW (RaVeN) · Post by **THE JEW (RaVeN)** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 2:43 pm

If you have a serious problem with this, I have some phone #'s you can call. One allows you to cast your opinion on the matter at the federal justice level. You phone and say whether you are pro gay-marriage or anit. The other is a federal poll. By simply phoning it you vote against it. Our church handed them out.

I'll need to look hard to find the #'s here in Toronto, but if you guys want 'em, I'll look for 'em.

On a side note, I say the dumbest thing on T.V. We were watching Scare Tactics on Friday. The bit was that there was a nanny applying for a job. The parents were supposed to be cannibals. The applying nanny finds out the parents are cannibals from another sitter and that they want to eat her. The parents come back after the chicks all freaked out. They tell her that they're cannibals. She says she knows, but "didn't want to say anything to offend you..........it's your thing, after all."

Are we at the point that EATING PEOPLE is just a social quirk? Is it really that hard to say that someone's wrong?

Ghost [PX] · Post by **Ghost [PX]** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 2:46 pm

Bill C-250 (An Act to Amend the Criminal Code) would add "sexual orientation" to the current list of identifiable groups (i.e. colour, race, religion and ethnic origin) in the "hate propaganda" sections of the Criminal Code of Canada. This private member?s bill was introduced by MP Svend Robinson as Bill C-415 and in May passed second reading and was referred to the Justice Committee for further study. Mr. Robinson explained his reasons for introducing this bill in his speech to the House of Commons.

I don't see where the problem with this is? The issue is that people are over-reacting. Its fine if you dont like gays, but you have no right, regardless of your religious beliefs or moral stance, to condemn them or claim that what they do is wrong. I agree that the prom being held early is ridiculous, and I can understand the Catholic School's take on the whole thing. I think thats going a wee bit too far. The teacher getting fired for writing the article seems a bit drastic to me as well, but I dont know what he wrote, so he might have warranted such action.

As for the bill itself, I see no reason not to put it through.

THE JEW (RaVeN) · Post by **THE JEW (RaVeN)** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 2:49 pm

I'm not sure if it's Bill C250, but Parliament recently added homosexuality to the hate crimes list. Now, potentially, they can jail ministers for simply preaching.

Nice to know that I now officially own a book of hatred under Canadian law. :roll:

Tempus · Post by **Tempus** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:26 pm

first of all Ghost... you went to the NDP website for that info i was there myself and recognize that... they are pro-gay and definately not going to say anything bad about THEIR OWN MP. Second the gays are pushing to far into everyone elses rights

this thing about them wanting equal rights is BULLSHIT!!! they dont and havent stopped there...

[quote]The teacher getting fired for writing the article seems a bit drastic to me as well, but I dont know what he wrote, so he might have warranted such action.

no one has the right to fire anyone over their opinion .. expressed to a newspaper that published it (obviously it wasnt hate oriented or the paper wouldnt have published it) he was on his own time (school wasnt even in for goodness sake) writing to his local paper... that is some load of shite

Ghost [PX] · Post by **Ghost [PX]** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:30 pm

Actually I got the quote from a PRO bill c250 site. Here it is if you dont believe me.

http://www.wbbc.ca/Billc250readmore.htm

As for someone wanting equal rights being bullshit? What does them being gay have to do with it? i can understand your outrage at the teacher being fired, but I can see both sides of it, since both sides are ridiculous when you get right down to it. [/quote]

THE JEW (RaVeN) · Post by **THE JEW (RaVeN)** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:36 pm

It's not us saying it's wrong............it's the Big Guy upstairs who says it's wrong.

Justice shouldn't be a wavering popularity contest.

Ghost [PX] · Post by **Ghost [PX]** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:46 pm

I agree, but it also shouldnt take into account religious beliefs when deciding whats wrong and whats right.

You may believe in said big guy, but I dont and many others dont either. The judicial system is supposed to serve everyone, not just the majority.

I agree, the justice system is making ridiculous rulings, but you have to understand that rulings like this will be made until people, both gay and straight, calm down and accept things. That wont happen until they are equal in the eyes of the law.

Tempus · Post by **Tempus** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 8:21 pm

paul i will discuss this with you in person at a later date because i cant express myself properlythrough the internet... something always seems to get lost in the translation

[PX]IronFist · Post by **[PX]IronFist** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:59 pm

I'm with Paul on this one, I see no problem with this bill C250. This is the text from the Parliment of Canada Website.

1. Subsection 318(4) of the Criminal Code is replaced by the following:

Definition of 'identifiable group'
(4) In this section, 'identifiable group' means any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation .

Basically this means that people of a specific sexual orientation are now an identifiable group and as such you can be persecuted as a hate crime for gay bashing (or straight bashing), just as you can be for bashing someone based on their religion or race. I really don't see the problem with this.
As for this teacher, if he was descriminating against gays based on their sexual orientation then maybe he deserved to get fired. We have no idea what the letter was like, this could be a really hate filled guy. Teachers are not like you and me, they have to be held to a higher code. These people have a hand in raising our children and if they are in any way unstable then they should be removed.
Now the prom thing, I think, is total BS. I believe that the state should be a-moral but also that the separation of church and state should be total. If the Catholic church and the school system they control don't want gays in their churches or in their classrooms then I say that is their perogative. In any case, they certainly should not be forced to hold a separate "gay" prom, if that's somthing they don't want to do. If you want to be gay and religious you should find a religion that allows that.

[Fallen]TSB · Post by **[Fallen]TSB** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:11 pm

I am with The Jew and Tempus on this one.. I have found a few things out about this kind of thing and it sounds like that once this becones a hate crime to talk against gays they have to teach it in school and what not becuase if you dont you are against them.. something like that.. I have hurd of teachers getting fired for not reading books to the kids that share the gay way becuase the dad and dad of a child was mad (Ex book billy and sue.. they want Billy and Billy) .. Now I know some of you may want your kids being told in school about billy and billy but I think I would reather tell my own kids and I dont want my kid growing up with these ideas in his head from grade 1 (if i ever have kids) it is getting kind of stupid if you ask me.. I am also not a big fan of the court desiding that they can get married when it should be the gov't. I mean if it comes to the court then why do we vote?? why not just do things threw court??

also the hate crime thing means the bible is a hate crime.. kind of weird beucse canada was based on christian beliefs.. (sp?)

well thats my stuff..

[PX]IronFist · Post by **[PX]IronFist** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:51 pm

(XLS)TSB wrote:Now I know some of you may want your kids being told in school about billy and billy but I think I would reather tell my own kids and I dont want my kid growing up with these ideas in his head from grade 1 (if i ever have kids) it is getting kind of stupid if you ask me.

If you don't want your kids to learn about this kind of stuff in school, then you shouldn't send them to a public school. Send them to a Catholic school, or a Christian school, or home school them. The government doesn't force you to send your kids to public school, if you don't want your kids to get an education that covers everything fairly then don't send them to a state funded school.

(XLS)TSB wrote:I am also not a big fan of the court desiding that they can get married when it should be the gov't.

The courts and the government work together, and just because the courts think that a gay marriage is just as valid as a hetero one dosen't make it so. The government still has the final say.
As far as I am concerned the govenment should get out of the marriage business altogether, there should be a non-religious union which the state will give to any two people of age who show a comitment to support each other financially (just like a business partnership). If a church wants to have an institution known as "marriage" and doesn't want to allow gay people to take part in it, that's their choice.

THE JEW (RaVeN) · Post by **THE JEW (RaVeN)** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:58 pm

I'm with Tempus--in person is best to talk about this.

However, these are my tidbits:

I agree, but it also shouldnt take into account religious beliefs when deciding whats wrong and whats right.

Then who decides? It just becomes a popularity contest like I said before. There are absolutes in this world.

You may believe in said big guy, but I dont and many others dont either.

That's between you and Him. If you're right and He doesn't exist, you're not gonna get to gloat about it after we're dead. On the other hand, if I'm right.............

I agree, the justice system is making ridiculous rulings, but you have to understand that rulings like this will be made until people, both gay and straight, calm down and accept things. That wont happen until they are equal in the eyes of the law.

Tolerance isn't always the best option. This law won't make things equal. It's designed as a loop hole to disallow people to say that they think homosexuality is wrong. I'm not saying they're bad people. Heck, 2 of the guys I hung out with in rez were gay (granted, I didn't hang out with them that much). They weren't less of a person in my eyes. Hate the sin, not the sinner. I don't believe that homosexuals have any more reason of going to hell than serial rapists or that person whose only sin ever is stealing one cookie from the cookie jar. Sin is sin and everyone is accountable for it.

I believe there's some confusion between bashing and calling something wrong. Bashing, to me, is maliciously going out to hurt someone. Calling something wrong is just telling it like it is. If I steal a cookie and you tell me that it's wrong, I'm not gonna get uptight and tell you to bugger off cuz stealing is part of my personal orientation.

Now the prom thing, I think, is total BS. I believe that the state should be a-moral but also that the separation of church and state should be total. If the Catholic church and the school system they control don't want gays in their churches or in their classrooms then I say that is their perogative. They certainly should not be forced to hold a separate "gay" prom, if that's somthing they don't want to do. If you want to be gay and religious you should find a religion that allows that.

That's what I believe also, but there's a big problem if they allow this bill. Refusal of entry can easily be classified as discrimination. Where do you draw the line?

I'm all for recognizing that gay people are indeed people. I'm against people "poo poohing" homosexuality. I do believe it's wrong. Heck, our group through our slang recognizes that. When was the last time any of us said "That's gay" and meant it in a positive way? The people who go on their huge "all you faggots are gonna rot in hell" speels need to re-evaluate how they think of their fellow human beings. Homosexuality, however, is still wrong. Period.

[PX]IronFist · Post by **[PX]IronFist** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:38 am

Ok, First off, lets get things straight here

This law won't make things equal. It's designed as a loop hole to disallow people to say that they think homosexuality is wrong.

This law is in no way making it illegal to say that homosexuality is wrong, people can basically have their own opinions about what ever they want. All it is doing is recognising that a hate crime can be comitted based on sexual orientation and that there should be a law to deal with this.

I believe there's some confusion between bashing and calling something wrong. Bashing, to me, is maliciously going out to hurt someone

I think this is the right idea, this pretty much supports my point from above.

Then who decides? It just becomes a popularity contest like I said before. There are absolutes in this world.

This is basically the whole crux of my point. Your right, there are absolutes in this world and religion has nothing to do with them. I think that everyone can agree to certain truths, such as the value of human life, and the right to live your life the way you want too, and you never have to bring religion into the picture. This is why the chruch and the state can be separate and the system can still work.

Tolerance isn't always the best option.

I believe that as long as we are operating within the bounds of these certain truths that we should all be able to agree on, then tolerance is always the best option.

Refusal of entry can easily be classified as discrimination. Where do you draw the line?

Since when is discrimination a hate crime? If you are running a business the govenment has some measure of control over you, they can say "you can't discriminate against employees based on this, and this, and this", but religion is different - you should be able to accept or turn away who ever you want, based on what ever you want.

Homosexuality, however, is still wrong. Period

That is certinly your opinion and you are welcome to it, and although some people might agree with you (I personally am conflicted since I do enjoy lesbians so much. :wink:

), I'm sure lots of people don't, and that's their right as well.