Safety/Video Discussion

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

Since I will be recording our games to post on YouTube and promote our technology, I want to make sure that everyone is following the proper safety protocols on film so that we appear reputable and trust worthy.
These will be non-negotiable as safety is important (never thought I'd say that), and The reputations of Bob, Jon, and myself are on the line.

Please don't let us down.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paintball for extended rule explanation.

Masks On – Even when a game is not in progress, masks must be on while players are within the playing area. All players' markers must also have a barrel sleeve in place to ensure that a paintball cannot be fired accidentally. Masks may be removed at the staging area only, but barrel sleeves are required until the game begins. They may only be removed once you are at your starting position depending on the game type.

Minimum distance – Please be careful to not fire within 15 feet (4.5 m) of another player. A player who advances to within minimum range may offer his opponent the chance to surrender before shooting. We are all friends and adults and this rule is the most flexible. Surrenders are optional to offer and accept, but if a player says they would prefer to surrender, please offer. This applies vice-versa.

Overshooting / Bonus Balling – Please practice your trigger control and don't intentionally shoot a player once they are eliminated.

[[PX]Kal Bob]

I am meh for a lot of this rule stuff.

1) The Mask's of course are a no brainer, unless you want to try life out blind and deaf, your choice on that score.

2) As for the distance limit lol... After I tried to surrender Nate and got a ball in the chest... yeah guns blazing around the corners now!
PS. Nate, awesome hit on that one, your barrel is still burned into my memory
When you play paintball you know this could happen, that is why when you go near an opening, you come in low.

3) As for the bonus balling, I don't think anyone has ever done that.
Now I always send three balls at my target, I think this is pretty standard for paint ball since the guns are not dead on.
Also, if you don't start screaming out and wave your hands like crazy, three more are coming at you 100% of the time.
W00T for Jodi on this score, I never have to double tap her lol


I think the bigger issue here is the recording and posting of video on-line.
Before you tape everything, you have to make sure that everyone knows you are taping.
Also you have to make sure that everyone that you are posting this on-line.
If anyone has an issue with that, then no recording can be done.

lol, quite frankly I am more concerned with the sorry status of my kilns more then perceived safety.
If we are YouTube'ing, I had better breakout the Paint Brushes!

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

Of course #2 and #3 are guidelines. For example, Bob and Steve are on my DO NOT SURRENDER LIST (yes there is a real list), and I have made it known that if you get up close behind me without me knowing or trap me somewhere and I'm defenceless, I'll take the offer. Paintballs only hurt for less than a minute, fire away if that's what you want to do, but remember that there is a list (for real).

#1 should be non-negotiable. I would appreciate Bob's support here as it is his property, and I don't want people on camera waving their guns around while describing the last game with their masks off in the playing area.

Please remember to bring your barrel sleeves as we have never made an issue of this, but there have been some misfires in the past.

As for videoing without permission, there is no law against this, and everyone can take this as a notice that I will have a camera on my gun from now on and you may or may not be on YouTube depending on if I hit you or not. Rest assured that most of the video will have low game audio and I will not just be uploading 20 minute unedited versions with our conversations and what not. I am only interested in game play footage.

When it comes to the kilns... I will see what I can do in post-production.

And of course I AM NOT an officer of the law and I can not force you to do anything against your will, but if you are on camera being unsafe, then you will have to deal with that yourself. For example I will take my mask off during a game if it needs to be clean, but I go somewhere safe first, that is my risk. Just try not to make is so blatant.

[[PX]Kal Bob]

As for videoing without permission, there is no law against this, and everyone can take this as a notice that I will have a camera on my gun from now on and you may or may not be on YouTube depending on if I hit you or not. Rest assured that most of the video will have low game audio and I will not just be uploading 20 minute unedited versions with our conversations and what not. I am only interested in game play footage.

The Suprem Court Disagrees with you:

(there is) an infringement of the person's right to (privacy)...as soon as the image is published without consent and enables the person to be identified

Full ruling text:
http://scc.lexum.org/en/1998/1998scr1-591/1998scr1-591.html

Also after a little digging I found that alot of this revolves around Pictures or Video in a public place.
Sadly, my farm is not that. Therfore as the owner I would be liable under any civil actions resulting from complains of video without consent.
I am thus required to set a policy, which lol I guess I already did in the last post.
http://communications-media.lawyers.com/privacy-law/Photography-or-Video-Taping-Consent.html

So just to confirm this is the Rule.

Code: Select all

If anyone wants to video a match, you will have get all the people playing in the match, or would be on video's Permission to record them.
If you intend to post this on Youtube or any other distribution channel, the persons present must be told this as well. 
If you are unable to attain permission for anyone involved, no recording can take place.
The privilege to play will always superseded the privilege to record.

As I see it this is a simple matter of common courtesy, if a person does not want to be recorded, don't record them.

Also, I would like to say that I am willing to discus any rules and changing them.
But on this score you will need to give me good reason and the majority of people saying the same thing.
Simply because if everyone agrees to video recording, then there is no issue anyway.

[Tempus]

There are actually numerous laws both in Ontario as well as around the world. Virtually every "First World" nation has laws prohibiting the posting of images without the consent of the subjects.

While it may in fact be legal to video tape a bunch of people doing random activities, it is NOT your inherent right to post or otherwise publish those images. This applies to models and actors ESPECIALLY with regards to oral consent. Consent must be explicit for it to be considered legal, there is a legal difference between the right to capture an image and the right to publish said image.

Photographing or videotaping a person without their knowledge or consent may open you up to a lawsuit for invasion of privacy. It's a tort or civil wrong. Generally it means the intentional intrusion into the private life or affairs of another person. If you violate someone's right to privacy and cause injury, that person is entitled to sue you to recover damages

There is resounding precedence in Canadian law to support the individual's privacy.
See Athans v. Canadian Adventure Camps Ltd, Garbett v Hazell, Watson and Viney, Tolley v Fry,b, Dunlop Rubber Co Ltd v Dunlop and Kirk v AH & AW Reed just to name a few.

All of these cases (in Canadian Law), the court has stood behind the rights of the individual who DID NOT consent to have their image captured. Most of them were awarded monetary compensation. Thus Bob is completely justified (as well as liable along side of yourself) for any and all legal ramifications of non-consent

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

OK so if anyone does not want to be put on YouTube, I will edit them out. I can still run my camera and will get everyone who consents to be on YouTube to do so on camera.

Bob, the whole reason for posting it on YouTube is to promote our technology. If you don't want to make any money off of it, then I guess you can make it harder for me to promote it, but that's your call.

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

I would also be surprised if anyone refused to be posted to YouTube in our group.

[[PX]Kal Bob]

its not really up to me, as I said if everyone is up for then it is ok.
But there are some people that don't want to be recorded. if that is the case there is nothing that can be done about it.
I would rather have more people playing then less people with more footage.

and if you intention is promote lol, then maybe an all out ban on cameras is in order.
Thus far all you will have is a bunch of us swearing at range extenders and me yelling pause while I trap through variables.

All in All I highly doubt Youtube will impact the sell ability of the system as it is marketed to Ranges, not consumers.
A business is going to more interested in sales figures showing how this system is going to increase revenue, so really we need Ironfist to run some numbers through his fancy server lol.
Where would we go to to get a survey done Ironfist? Also, what is the price tag on that?

Most likely I would think that YouTube would generate competition as people will see how it is done and make the units themselves.
But then those people are not our target market anyway, so more power to them.
lol, as it is looking our software might be opensource anyway so as long as they can solder they would be gold.

Next point, if you want promotion, why don't we just stage some scenes for you?
Scripted actions are going to come out a million times better then us just running around.
My handle for the video will be Thor, the gray alien from stargate, not the body builder from the move lol.

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

I hope it goes without saying that I would not post problems with the equipment to a public forum.

The idea of viral marketing is to get people excited about the idea, not teach them how to make their own. Also, I think that there should be a consumer version available for purchase. Wouldn't you buy it? Besides, ranges are already following us on twitter, and they will be directed to the YouTube footage to check out the tech. If even 1 person buys it because of YouTube, then it's worth the "trouble". (It's really not that much trouble)

The bottom line is that I would be recording games regardless of the tech promotion, and if anyone doesn't want to be on YouTube, they can still play and will be edited out of any YouTube footage. I'm already thinking of a humorous paintball stick-man to cover them up . Maybe just a cartoon paintball mask...

I've done some in-formal questioning of paintball players and have received ZERO negative feedback. What we need to figure out is a price point that is affordable and profitable.

[[PX]Kal Bob]

Cool did you by chance ask how much extra they would be willing to pay for the service or how much more often they would be willing to go?

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

Most people felt that Paintball is already too expensive (although that is because of paint cost), but they would play more often, and not be upset by the costs involved.

[[PX]IronFist]

I don't think we really need to worry that much about marketing, or surveys, or getting price information from players or ranges until we actually have somthing to show that works.

[[Fallen]TSB]

yah get it working 100% then make the vids and such. The key is to have something that works so THEN you can look at selling it.

[[PX] Nebuchadnezzar]

The key is to build excitement. Plus this is my offering to the project. I don't want to sit back and do nothing.

[[PX]IronFist]

I think that building some excitement, and giveing people a little taste of how we play paintball is a good idea. I'm jsut saying we don't need to talk about numbers at this point.