KalNet Message Board

Lurker method of sweetspotting regs.

1: Back out both regs or Zero out both the LPR and HPR to 0psi
2: Raise HPR slightly only to set LPR for cycling
3: Raise LPR to fully cycling ~45psi or so
4: Raise HPR until velocity begins to stop rising as you increase pressure
5: Raise LPR to desired velocity
6: Lower HPR a bit, then raise if necessary... you're trying to find the best HPR setting at the LPR setting you have. This may put your velocity over 300/285
7: Lower LPR slightly to field velocity

Thank you for purchasing an Eigenram upgrade ram for your Generation 5 Intimidator!
Installation:
1. Remove Bolt from Marker
2. Unscrew lower back cap, remove ram.
3. Decide on your weight. Either cut the included hollow black spacer to match the length of
the brass insert (if it is not already) or install the brass insert to the back of the ram. The
brass insert is recommended for users with the stock bolt.
4. Cut the bumper flush with the back of the ram. Scissors are totally adequate for all
cutting.
5. Lightly lube O-rings with Lurker Lube or your own favorite lubricant.
6. Install Ram.
7. Replace stock poppet spring with lightened poppet spring by removing front block.
Tuning:
1. Poppet choice – We recommend the HP poppet for base tuning.
2. As you’ve modified your gun from stock, we recommend our tuning algorithm to find the
settings that are optimal for your gun.
3. Set the dwell to 3.0ms. If FSDO is encountered, increase the setting until it is gone.
4. Set LPR to 75 psi
5. Back HPR all the way down. Start firing shots over the chrono until velocity no longer
increases with increasing pressure.
6. Increase LPR until FPS is close to desired Field Velocity.
7. Find the point with the HPR where increasing or decreasing the HPR Pressure results in
lowered velocity. This is the “Sweet Spot”, where efficiency and consistency are best.
A Note on the Brass Insert:
To remove, bang the rear of the ram against a hard, flat surface until the brass insert is flush with
the back of the ram. Use a flick of the wrist to generate centrifugal force to remove the insert
fully, or use negative pressure to remove. A clean bore and insert will make this much easier.

Originally Posted by oldironmudder
OK,

The vertical regulator (one you hold on to during play) is the High Pressure Regulator or HPR.
The horizontal regulator (parallel to the barrel) is the Low Pressure Regulator or LPR.

The LPR supplies air to the solenoid & ram. The HPR supplies air to the LPR & poppet to fire the ball.




First, adjust the adjustment screws out (counter clock wise). Turn marker on & disable eyes. Screw in air supply (turn on on-off if you have one). Take a 3/16" allen key & turn the HPR 3 turns clockwise. Take bolt & slide it forward opening the poppet to confirm air is entering the marker. At this time, the gauge on the side of the front block should read zero ( 0 ). If not, replace oring on the outside of LPR. If zero, take 3/16" allen key & turn LPR until it reads 60psi. Dry fire the marker several times. At this point you are ready for paint & a trip to the chrono. Take your allen key, marker & paint to the chrono. Follow what the link I posted above said about chronoing & balancing the regulators.

Now after you chrono you still are shooting low, you either dont have a barrel on the marker, you have kinked hoses in the grip frame or your dwell is to low.

Dwell should be between 8 & 10 ms. Hoses should be kink free & bend smoothly. And if you are trying this without a barrel, give up now.

Now if this doesnt help at all which it should, find a local person that knows Timmys. Not just someone who has looked at the manual or diagrams. Give it to them & tell them what is happening & tell them to fix it. Now if you cant do that, you might ask around here to see if someone is willing to get it working right.

Originally Posted by Jack & Coke
When I spoke with Bob on the phone, he gave me a few tips on how to gas up the Timmy for optimal and consistent performance. Will the Timmy work if you just gas it up? Sure!
But what follows is what Bob believes and practices...

HOW TO GAS UP YOUR GUN FOR A WHOLE DAY OF PAINTBALL

1. When you first gas up your Timmy for a day of paintball, screw in your tank (or turn on the on/off ASA). Your gun will pressurize and you will be able to fire it.

2. Take a hex wrench and back the set screw of your LP Reg out (counter clock-wise) until it is flush with the end cap. Do the same to the HP reg. Fire your marker a few times as you do this and you will immediately notice that the system loses pressure to the point that it will not cycle (Kinda like when you de-gas a CO2 bottle from a marker).

EDIT: Step 2.5. Turn the HPR screw in about a turn or so, just to get a little pressure flowing into the marker so you can successfully perform step 3.

3. Slowly begin turning the LP reg screw in (clock-wise) in small increments (i.e. 1/16 of a turn) as you fire the gun. Keep doing this until your main gauge reads 85 psi (EDIT: at the time this article was written, it was geared towards a Gen 2 (2k2) - if you have a Gen3, the manual suggests a range of 70-80 psi - likewise, if you have a Gen4, the manual suggests a range of 55-65 psi). Now your operating pressure is set.

4. After you have set the operating to 85 psi (EDIT: see note above), slowly screw in the set screws in the HP reg (clock-wise), until you see about 4 threads. This should put you in the neighborhood of 250-310 fps.

5. Go to a chrono and fine turn the HP reg setting until your marker is shooting at the velocity you want.

6. DO NOT DE-GAS YOUR GUN FOR THE REST OF THE DAY. Bob keeps his marker pressurized until his is done for the day. Only use your power on/off switch to disable your gun.

What this does is reset the tensions on the HP and LP reg springs. When you first gas the gun up, the gas pressure in your tank slams full force into the HP and LP regs. It takes time (i.e. many shots) for the springs to correctly adjust from a state of non-pressure, to a state of consistent pressure.

The idea of steps 1-5 is to slowly introduce pressure into your gun's system instead of 'shocking' it. Just think of the Regs as faucet valves in your sink. Be nice to them !

The idea of step 6 is to keep the springs in your regs under consistent pressure so your gun will have consistent velocities throughout the day. Good consistent spring pressure = good consistent regs = good consistent air pressure on the balls = good consistent ball trajectories = good consistent ACCURACY! Let's say you play 10 games, and after each game you de-gas your gun. That's 10 times your reg springs have to reset! How do you expect your regs to be consistent?

Bob says he does this every time he plays. But if you just want to goof around and shoot the gun, it's ok to just gas it up and rock and roll. Just don't expect super duper consistent velocities.

they don't require pressure testers

The pressure testers are an awesome TOOL that helps with tuning and setting your gun up

Bob Long doesn't have to provide an optional pressure tester accessory. As a matter of fact, he's one of the few companies that does. Dye doesn't, Planet Eclipse doesn't, MacDev has one for the Clone GT, but very few companies offer it

It's an amazing tool, to tune your gun to your liking. Personally, I can tune guns pretty easy without a pressure tester. Here is what I do-

From zero pressure on LPR & HPR-

Give two turns on the HPR to air up the gun, then turn the LPR in a turn or two.
Chrono
Keep incrementally increasing your HPR & LPR pressure till you get close to 290fps

Now - start increasing LPR pressure till the velocity plateaus, aka doesn't go up any more. Now increase LPR pressure about 1/4 of a turn past that point. Now, adjust the HPR until your at 290fps.

At this point, you're LPR should be set. You've got a little extra pressure on the LPR, to move the bolt in case your lube gets thin, or an oring gets worn in a bit, or the bolt gets dirty.

Hope this helps

Backing off how hard you hit the poppet (reducing LPR pressure, reducing dwell) can have a pretty negative effect on how your gun performs

If you have to increase HPR pressure to increase velocity (with a "tuned LPR"), this can have a "submarine door" effect on the poppet, and your reduced dwell and LPR pressure can actually cause your velocity to go down.

If you smack the poppet hard, it opens up all the way, allowing your to run a lower HPR which is what actually propels the ball out of the barrel.

I tend to just run my dwell @ 8ms, LPR @ 80psi, and I've found this allows me to reduce my HPR pressure to get to 300fps.

Leave your dwell @ 8ms. Set your gun to 80psi and your HPR to 300fps. Then start backing out your LPR slowly until your velocity starts to drop. Once it starts to drop, tighten it 1/4 turn. That should put your ram at it's optimum pressure so it's not over-smacking the poppet, causing vibration through the gun.

Idealy, you shouldn't be using your LPR to adjust velocity. If you are, you need to increase your LPR pressure.

But I've found from shooting Bob Long's for years, that they really tend to like 80psi. Once you start going below that, all hell breaks loose with inconsistency over the chrono. I played the entire 2009 PSP using the Vice, and I kept it at 80psi the entire season. Every time I walked up the chrono, regardless of what city I was in, it shot consistent. Whenever my consistency started to get a bit flaky, low LPR was always to blame.

Hope this helps!

Do this....there really is no need for a video...

You need to know-the HPR air pushes the paintball out of the barrel, the lpr air opens the valve that store the HPR air. There is a balance, or "sweetspot", that needs to be maintained for this thing to run like a sewing machine.

just know that the goal of this all is to have the lowest LPR setting for a given HPR setting that can utilize the lowest dwell without sacrificing fps, consistency, fsdo, drop off during high rof, or efficiency.

-With no air on the gun back out both regs to flush
-Set your dwell to 6
-Turn your gun on
-Turn your eyes off
-Put air on your gun
-Increase your HPR pressure (clockwise) until you hear air enter the gun
-Add another 1/2-3/4 turn increase on your hpr
-now while pulling your trigger (solenoid should just be clicking at this point) slowly increase your LPR (clockwise) until the gun fully cycles quickly
-Put a hopper on your gun with paintballs in it that match your barrel size
-chrono 3 shots (take the average)
-Increase your hpr using 1/16-1/8 turns (chronoing 3 shots/avg after each small adjustment)
-Once you hit the point where the velocity stops increasing (not decreases...but stops increasing) then increase your lpr by 1/16 turn to chrono to your desired fps
-if your velocity stops increasing no matter how much you increase lpr then go back to the point where it stopped increasing and repeat the HPR increase
-This is your sweet spot....now decrease your dwell until you lose velocity, consistency, or get fsdo/drop off during high rof. At that dwell setting that you get any of the things I just mentioned increase it by 1 ms.
-Degas your gun and install your pressure tester (if you have one) write your pressures and dwell settings down.

BAM

Congratulations you now have the best shooting gun ever made in the history of paintball....

I sure hope you use this....

stock is pretty much the optimum setting, i wouldnt mess with it too much, heres how i run mine-
lpr 70
dwell 6
anti bolt stick 5
bolt delay 15 (i had trouble with it spitting blank shots on ramping)
debounce 6
anti mech bounce 4
cycle per. filter 90
BIP delay 5
eye mode forced
air up

When u get another piece try them all and which ever fits the tightest take and press a set of needle nose pliers into the end and make the opening bigger. Thats what made it work the best for me, i dont have any issues at all testing mine.

Just to add to the mod. Get the thick macro line dremel a grove into it to hold a ram oring. This DIY really works good job.

Any Timmy will work at 45psi. The questions however are...

1. Are you sure your gauge isn't a bit off?

2. How well is it operating?

The suggested LPR setting is not due to what the Marker requires. 80 PSI is what Humphrey (the solenoid manufacturer) says is the optimal operating range for the noid. You can run it a bit lower than that but at almost half of the ideal pressure the engineers suggest, you're sacrificing performance in some way. The lowest I run my Timmys is 60-65-ish PSI and that range offers consistent and reliable FPS reading of as low as +/- 1-3 over a chrono and getting almost 1800 shots off a full 68/4500.

In my experience setting a Timmy LPR at 55psi or lower requires a longer Dwell time which eats up more air and therefore shot count drops to about 1400 or so. For a Back-Mid Player that lays down paint to lock down lanes, that extra efficiency is very important and can make all the difference in closing out a match.
__________________

Any recommendation on a dwell setting

Mine is at 12 on a 2k2 (4.5W coil w/ capacitor mod)

I just wired a capacitor in parallel with the battery - 3300uF

I'm slightly hung over and it's my birthday, but this is accurate, from memory. Capacitors tend to be polarity sensitive but I recall the positive side being the short one.

Originally Posted by laser8302
3300uF is on the rather large size for a 2k5 frame anyway. I've already got a RF chip in there. The largest cap I could probably fit a 500 in there.

A 1206 serface mount cap would do it. very small. would be no thicker or wider then the wire you solder it to. Put a piece of shrink tube over it to keep it from touching anything and shorting. Even if you wanted to go with a tantilum style smt cap... little bigger size wise but still pretty small.


Quote:
Originally Posted by park bench
you can find capacitors anywhere that small electronics are sold, like radio shack, or online.
www.digikey.com

Disclaimer: I am not responce for using of next mod

So, I was noticed evening before training (on reballs) one ball detens was broken. I have car windshields replacing rubbers, so I cutted next


main trick is to install ball detents not like ===0|
but ===0-
where is === bolt
0 ball
| balldetent installed vertically
- balldetent installed horizontally

Please do not claim I am breaking anything since pair of them works flawlesly for 3 month for now 2 times per week
edited: using HaloB for month - no doublefeed
(sorry for English, I am a not native speaker)
good luck to all!

Hard Detents - The stock detents are one of the weakest points of an Intimidator. They were originally designed when Revy's were top of the line loaders. Today's force-fed and high speed loaders (Halo's, Pulses, Reloader B's) put enough torque on the ball stack that the ball in the breach can often be pushed past the stock detents. This leads to double feeds, chops and breaks. When it comes to upgraded detents you have three options.

Clear Spyder Detents - These are in the intermediate range in terms of hardness and Halo's and Reloader B's will still often push through them. They're easily found and cost about $1 each.

PBK Hard Blue Detents - My personal favorite. These run $2 each but they're firm enough to hold the ball firmly in place. With a slotted bolt, and frequent play you're not likely to run through more than 2 sets a year.

Kila Detents - These detents use magnets to allow the user to adjust the tension of the detent as it holds the ball into place. While this is a permanent detent fix, the cost is in the $40 range.

Hi guys anyone done this?

put a vice cup seal in a alias poppit

BLAST tech told me that vice cupseal is better than the alias
better flow etc.

so I want to do this and see if this is true

vice cupseals look the same as spyders but they are plastic made not teflon

Im just going ahead and do it on my small bench drill and see what happens

if someone has done this please input some pics and results please

update:

YEP IT CAN BE DONE!!!

had do drill a bigger hole in the cupseal
need to reduce the top top the cupseal too
it seals perfect
that ram sleeve I messed up when I was learning to polish the valve port hole and this valve sealed
Ill test it when I finish this marker
if someone do it before me please post data

last update

I finally got out the screw from the eye plate on the new timmy body and put the marker all back together
set the lpr to 75-80 cant tell because its a older BL gauge
went out this morning to do some test shots
chrono it to 292-295 FPS to see if it had any leaks or something wrong
WTF? the sound signature was soooo wierd different in a good way like a marq runing in low pressure with the eff engine
then I remember that I put this poppit cupseal with the polished poppit
went back at my bench and test the PSI and that marker was runing in 135 PSI I degased it and regased and yes it was 135 did a dryshot and there it was 135 PSI
I dont know if it was because of a new body or the cupseal
did any one done this mod?
if so please let me know,
Im ordering more cupseals to put them on other timmys and see what happens

Some 55 is sold as a pink goop, which turns light brown with age, I've had both kinds, only have white now, I used up all the pink stuff to make 44-D (1/3 of 55, 2/3 of 33 & a few drops of triflow to smooth it out); recomended lube for timmies by the incubus, maker of manuals and all around timmy connoisseur.

Yes, it will almost always work better. The exception is brand new orings which 55 swells and softens. I install my rings on timmies with 55 generally and then use ll for every subsequent relube. I have rebuild the ram and reg with just ll with no issues.

55 is not a very good lubricant, but it makes orings reliable and the use of it from the factory is a factor in the reliability of bobs guns IMO

The orings don't wear in very much in pb applications, at least in clean guns.

Yes I mean lurker lube is slicker. However keep in mind that lurker is not some thin as spit lubricant to get chrono readings up. It might help for that, but you are getting a real, thick grease that stays in place and has no gimmick colorants to void the warranty.

The point of a lubricant is reliability. Those that have been around timmies know that dow55 has a tendency to dry out over time. Lurker tends not to do that as much.

That said, do not ever buy a paintball lubricant just to buy it. It's not a big difference and you have better stuff to worry about. Given the shipping cost the lube is practically a promotional item.

And I always use diw55 for static rings, best stuff on the market easily for that. Freakin ram sleeve rings...

This guide was originally posted by Sergeant Evil

Let me know if I missed anything or something need to be re-worded.

Remove your grip panels and the 4 screws holding on the shell

I also removed my trigger guard, as my HP macro line elbow hits it, and its easer to remove the guard, than the elbow.



Remove the grip from the body,



The Bolt

Pull the pin on top of your bolt. This will disconnect the bolt from your Ram and you can now slide it out the rear of your gun. Wipe off all the old grease and dirt that is on the bolt. get the bolt nice and clean. Inspect your o-rings for nicks and scratches. If there is damage to any of your o-rings, replace them promptly. Take a squeegee and run it through the body of the marker. This should wipe up some of the old grease that now has dirt in it (and will wear down your markers internals). Do not reinsert the bolt yet, there is still another step before it is ready

The Ram

Using only your hands, remove the cap at the rear of your markers body. Once turning the cap no longer causes it to back out your gun, just grab it and pull it out. Now tilt your gun so that the back (where you just removed the cap) is facing downwards, your ram will pop right out. If it does not, push it out from the top of the marker (the slot where the bolt pin goes through) with something, a pencil will work. Wipe down the ram with the rag and inspect the o-rings. These o-rings are integral to the markers function and it is very important that these o-rings are in good shape. If you see any nicks or cuts remove the o-ring and replace. These o-rings will wear down periodically, so make sure you check them well. Relube the ram , being sure to apply a good coat over the o-rings especially. Reinsert the hammer (the thin end goes in first) being careful to observe that it goes in properly. You have to get the thin end to go into a smaller diameter tube in the front of the rams housing, so if the hammer does not slide all the way into the gun, it is not in this tube properly. Get the cap that seals off the ram housing tube, and be sure to apply a generous amount of grease to the o-ring in front of the threads. This will help the marker seal properly and your cap will not come loose as easily. Turn the cap clockwise tightening as tight as possible but only using your hands, do not use a wrench.

Bolt reinsertion

This takes some practice but after time it will be like second nature. Reinsert the bolt into the gun making sure to align the pin with the slot in the hammer. It is tough to see, but you should be able to feel when you've done it properly. If you'd like to be sure, there is an easy way to check. Look down your feed tube from above and move the bolt all the way back, it should come far enough abck so that you can just barely see the end of the bolt. Your bolt all the way forwards, the forward o-ring should just pass out of view before the bolt stops moving. If your bolt cannot complete this range of motion, the hammer/bolt pin are not lined up properly. Pushing down on the hammer and wiggling should help a little



Regulator Maintenance

The LP and HP regs are both the same for the purpose of maintenance though, so the method described will work with either. First of all, grab the reg housing with your hand and turn counter-clockwise. If the reg cannot be removed by hand, take your allen key and back out (turn counter-clockwise) the pressure adjustment screw located on the front of your reg in a manner that is similar as you would do if you were turning the pressure on your reg down. This will reduce spring tension inside the reg and you should be able to remove the regulator by hand.

Once you separated the reg, you will need to remove Spring base (washer), Spring, Piston (you may need to use a pair of needle nose pliers to pull it out)

The Pin valve:

Use a 3/8 socket wrench to unscrew the pin valve base (brass) It is under a small bit of pressure, so be careful it does not fly off., then pull out the pin valve and spring. Take a look at the pin itself to make sure there are no chips or bends in the pin, or your marker will malfunction. Now look at the o-rings on the base of the pin. There should be 1 white o-ring it must be in very good condition for your marker to function. This area shouldn’t get too dirty, but a little wipe down will not hurt anything. If the o-rings are damaged, replace immediately. Apply a thin coat of lube to the pin itself as well as the o-rings and reinsert into the marker then reattach the retention nut. Do not over tighten. Now reattach the regulator that was removed earlier.

Take your rag and clean out the inside walls of the regulator. Wipe down the spring and piston as well. Check the o-ring on the piston, if there are scratches, you know what to do. Relube the piston AND spring (the spring moves against the walls of the reg when it compresses, and this will also spread more lube inside the reg) well. Now, reinsert the parts of the reg. The order should be, washer first, then spring (doesn’t matter which direction it faces) and then the piston. The piston must be inserted facing the correct direction though. The end that has a wider little "nubb" on the face should be facing towards the back of your reg, or towards your gun. Push the parts in by hand. Reainsert the adjustment screw in the front of the reg by turning it clockwise.





The poppet....

To grease the poppet assembly, first you must remove the Reg assembly from the marker. If you don’t know how to do this, there is a screw holding it to the body that you can get at once you remove the grip frame. (Unlike the 2k2 timmys, the barb is off set from the set screw, so there is no need to remove the barb) Remove this screw and the reg assembly will slide right out.



A spring will come out, hold onto this and make sure to note which way it was facing (the narower end faces the poppet, the wider end faces the reg assembly). You may need to disconnect the hose from the reg assembly if it's too short and you cant take the assembly off without stretching the hose. Now, grab the bolt, pull it all the way back and then slam it forward. The poppet should come right out. If it doesn’t, push the poppet in (towards the marker) with your finger and try again. Grease the poppet and then reassemble. You only realistically have to do this once in a while. The poppet doesn’t need a whole lot of maintenance, maybe every 5 cases.



Grease all o-rings, and reassemble your marker. Air it up to test for any leaks.

Foot note, some of this was written by ElTwitcho, I did some word changing to fit my Alias type marker, and of course add the pic's