KalNet Message Board

Cocker threaded shockers;
SFT: Octane, Shocktech, Dark, Hybrid
NXT: Naughty dogs, Evil, Octane, Tremor, Shocktech, Hybrid

To test your tolerances, take the entire bolt assembly out of the gun. Then remove the sleeve and guide. At this point you will want to move the bolt back and forth in the can (while it is lubed). If the two pieces don't slide very easily your o-rings tolerances are too tight. It’s a good rule of thumb that if you pick up the can while the bolt is in it and tip it so the bolt is facing up, the bolt should slide down inside the can by the force of gravity. The same rule applies to the guide in the bolt and the bolt in the sleeve. Also if the parts don't slide smoothly, I.E. there is some stick or vibration then the tolerances could be better. If your tolerances aren’t like this you should find the o-rings that are the cause of the excess friction and replace them. Even though o-rings are listed as say 17/70 they are all a little different. The best way to find a good o-ring is to take all of your 17/70s and place them on a dowel rod or something similar that they can hang off and if you look very closely while they are hanging side by side you will see that some are slightly larger than the others. Take the larger ones and place them in the can. Then repeat the tolerance test. Do this until you find the best fitting o-rings you have. For the guide and bolt sail o-rings you will want to use the smaller o-rings. It is possible that the tolerances will be too loose and cause a leak or pneumatic lockout, so keep that in mind. Doing this in conjunction with the spring mod is the best way to reduce dwell and pressure while increasing efficiency.

Timeline is roughly:


1. HE delrin bolt idea, with better ports, and lower weight.
2. Ertalyte TX, added RETURN springs on the (correct) theory that this would greatly increase efficiency if I could get the bolt to close up super fast.
3. Several prototypes, varying levels of success.
4. Contract with a machinist to produce 100, at a ridiculous price I never should have paid.
5. Receive bolts totally unusable, 15 thou in chatter, ports in the wrong location, and too short.


6. Fall into despair, quit working on project. Give a few ertalyte TX bolts away for people to attempt to fix on their own. Never, EVER, underestimate the shocker community.

7. Results. People like strange, android17ak47, and gisgo09, among others, report that with the ports changed and something done about the short length and awful machining, you can get these bolts to peform well. It was in the area that I realized return springs weren't needed and the shocker's unique geometry allows for return air to be used from the can directly.

8. Start working side by side with Gisgo. If anyone deserves credit, it is him, not me. Armed with hand tools and JB weld, gisgo optimized every facet of the bolt possible, without having to repeatedly prototype (MASSIVE timesink).

9. I look into several solutions for ertalyte TX - aluminum cladding ala nox, or just better machining. A few people (special thanks to VPREATR at CCM) basically confirm I'll never get the finish I want from ertalyte TX without special finishes like electropolishing. All the while, plenty of lathe machinists claim to be able to hold 0.001".

10. Enter CS900. Without him, this wouldn't be possible. cs900 oversaw the next generation of metal prototypes. We finally got a beautiful anodized bolt out to gisgo that shattered anything a shocker (maybe any gun?) has done in terms of efficiency.

11. Order a batch of 200 in legit magnesium. Specify .001" tolerances, again.

12. Get bolts that have clearly been chucked crooked, resulting in multiple dimension issues for roughly 50% of bolts.

13. CS900 fixes a goodly number of them for spring/rear binding. In case you're not getting the picture by now, All the blame should be on me and the production machinists, and all credit goes to the fine gentlemen from the shocker community.

14. Get the bolts with proper dimensions to people, discover magnesium oxide sloughs off and thickens lube, unlike our stable and inert friend aluminum oxide (which does thicken lube but stays put on the metal).

15. CCluff2 reports a coating lessens the sludge impact. I go hunting for a coating solution. 3 bolts are coated - 1 for gisgo, 1 for strange, and 1 for ccluff. Everyone reports the issue solved.

16. Initiate mass recall of the bolts. Ship to have them coated for everyone at my cost.

17. While doing this, search all over the goddamn world for more magnesium stock, and buy it up while talking to a swiss screw machinist about the next batch. Order the machining (machinist #3) and have the material shipped to him.

18 - n. ????????

n+1. Profit

I figured out what went wrong there. Wasn't even the machinist necessarily, it was the material they used - I bought some from their source directly and it's horribly extruded stuff - .008" out of round.

That's why it chucked crooked on some of the bolts, which caused literally every tolerance problem (possible exception being the sail gland, which I should have taken down .001-.002 on principle to match the captured dynamic ring tolerances.

The new stuff is being centerless ground to .001 spec before being put on a swiss screw. No way in hell it messes up.

Try the below

Bolt guide orings are black
Replace the inner can and inner bolt sleeve orings with new black size 17 orings
Replace the bolt sail oring with a size 16 black oring
Make sure the battery is not old
Dwell 12
Don't crack on the bolt guide. Once it comes to a stop don't go any harder
Zero out the reg and increase the reg pressure until you get 285
You should never have fsdo with the Pooty bolt with the correct orings used in the shocker.

If your dwell is too low you can get it to chrono where you want by upping the pressure, but you will have terrible shoot down.

From zdspb
1. Lower the dwell to the minimum setting (or an extremely low setting, such as 12 chirps or 6 milliseconds).
2. Gradually increase dwell until the marker begins to fully cycle. You will know this time because, when the marker has trouble cycling, the sound of the bolt firing will be muffled and sound erratic, denoting inconsistencies. When you reach the point where it fully cycles, the marker will sound loud on each shot fired, with minimal sound difference between the shots (inconsistencies can be caused by other things, such as the reg, please note).
3. Once the Shocker is fully cycling, increase the dwell another 8-12 chirps (2-3 milliseconds), and that will be your dwell setting.

Also, like americanidiot said, check your oring tolerances

Start at 6 ms and then shoit and bump it up 1ms at a time until you get full cycles then give it 1 or 2 more ms for consistency sake.

keep increasing dwell until fps stops increasing with each increase in dwell. That will get you the lowest possible pressure

The humphrey noids usually take 2-4 ms more dwell time.

You don't need the bumper on the bolt in front of the sail but you still need the bumper on the guide that sits at the base of the spring.