KalNet Message Board

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paintball_marker#Ramping

Ramping
Ramping is a feature in some electronic markers that automatically changes the mode of fire from semi-automatic to fully automatic under certain conditions; normally upon a certain number of rapid shots being fired or a minimum rate of fire achieved and sustained. Ramping can be difficult to detect because ramping modes may be inconsistently used. Ramping modes can further be hidden in the software, ensuring that a marker will fire in a legal, semi-auto mode when being tested, but an illegal ramping mode may be engaged by the player under certain conditions.
Some leagues allow a specific ramping mode to prevent problems with enforcement, and to provide a more level playing field with regard to technical skill and marker quality (and price). The rule specifies a minimum time between shots resulting in a maximum rate of fire, and that a certain number of semi-automatic shots must be fired before ramping may engage. With players consistently using a standard ramping mode, players using a different mode are more easily detected.
The rate of fire is enforced by a "PACT" timer, a standard firearms timing device that measures the time between shots. The following are common league-specific ramping modes, preset in the marker's firmware:
PSP Ramping - Ramping begins after 3 shots; the player must maintain at least one pull per second to achieve/maintain ramping. The marker may then fire up to (and no more than) three balls per trigger pull in a "burst" fashion. Rate of fire cannot exceed 12.5 balls per second (as of 2011), even if the player pulls the trigger 5 times per second or faster.
NXL Ramping - Ramping begins after three shots; the player needs only to hold down the trigger to maintain fully automatic fire. Rate of fire cannot exceed 15 balls per second. Firing must cease immediately upon the trigger being released.
Millennium Ramping - Ramping begins after six trigger pulls at a minimum rate of 7.5 pulls per second; the player must maintain 7.5 trigger pulls per second to maintain ramping. Rate of fire cannot exceed 10.5 balls per second. When the player ceases to pull the trigger during ramping, no more than one extra ball may be fired after the last pull.

An interesting quote around 11:30 in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fduiVqO5tyw

Ramping should be banned except for in the professional leagues

I agree that for renegade or rec-ball it should be 1 trigger pull = 1 ball shot. We're not commandos. It's unnecessary.

Discuss:

I think that it's fine as long as your playing in a tournament where everyone knows it's being used and has the chance to use it. I think it's overkill in casual or renegade play.

Fortunately we've been pretty lucky and everyone who has guns who could take advantage of this has been good enough to turn it off. The only thing we have to worry about is Andrew getting a little over zealous with his RT

I think that the response trigger falls into the category of 1 trigger pull = more than one ball...

and therefore should not be used.

I believe that he has already dialed down the sensitivity of his RT, effectively disabling it.
Also, I believe I already covered the issue of Assisted Firing in the KTPPG rules post anyway.

Assisted Firing/Full Auto:The use of E-Triggers or Response Triggers is currently banned. Because of the nature of the field and the modes we play which often involve close quarters combat, blind corners, and suprise assaults fully automatic fire is not allowed. If you have a gun with full auto mode you must use it in semi-auto mode while playing on the field.

I can add in the "one ball per pull" line if you think it needs to be more clear?

A good marker can do 25bps on semi-auto so the rule is either perfect or moot depending on your perspective.

Perfect if you only want semi.

Moot if you're a pussy afraid of getting hit by a bunch of balls.


If it's an issue (which I don't think it is), just enforce tourney spec (ie. ref keys) or make everybody buy a pump/slingshot/stupid @$$ bow. Problem solved.

Just because a marker can shoot high rates doesn't mean you'll get hit a bunch. Check Punk Works test on laning.

It all comes down to if you have trigger control or not. Some of the people who play at Bob's do not.

I don't like the aid of any electronics. The only acceptable is electronic hopper.

Well, I think that's a bit extreme. Traditionally, tourney rules are one trigger, one actuator, one shot. An electronic trigger set to semi is the same as a mechanical one. Hell, most electronic ones have tourney lock-outs so that the ref can make sure it's only semi. You can't even do that with a mechanical.


Go back to the Luddite farm

[PX] Nebuchadnezzar wrote:It all comes down to if you have trigger control or not. Some of the people who play at Bob's do not.

Point a finger if there's a problem. What are you trying to say?

oh snap!

Quango wrote:

[PX] Nebuchadnezzar wrote:It all comes down to if you have trigger control or not. Some of the people who play at Bob's do not.

Point a finger if there's a problem. What are you trying to say?

I've discussed it face-to-face with the person/people in question. They know who they are.

THE JEW (RaVeN) wrote:Well, I think that's a bit extreme. Traditionally, tourney rules are one trigger, one actuator, one shot. An electronic trigger set to semi is the same as a mechanical one. Hell, most electronic ones have tourney lock-outs so that the ref can make sure it's only semi. You can't even do that with a mechanical.


Go back to the Luddite farm

Mine is like this. Its just an actuator that pulls down a piece of metal. Pretty simple stuff. You could probably screw on a mechanical trigger and it'd work just fine. It also has a jumper that locks it into semi-auto.

Honestly I guess I could probably fire a lot of balls at once with the double trigger if I really wanted to but I've limited myself with my choice of hopper. If I try to fire anything near full auto my gun will go dry in a seconds. Now a ramping trigger I can see that being a danger because you don't have to make the conscious effort to go full auto.

I really like the semi-auto rule though. Keeps paintball from becoming an arms race and preserves the element of skill (e.g. aiming properly) as well as allowing cool guns like the pistols to still be effective. My friend Dave came out for the first time two matches ago with a crusty old Viewloader and managed to have a great time and kick ass. I don't think he could have done that without the semi-auto rule.

I'm firmly in the semi-auto camp here. It helps to keep a level playing field. That, and I don't want to find out how it feels to jump around a corner and get a blast of full-auto while I'm trying to surrender someone!