KalNet Message Board

While I would be the person most likely to get this (and I'm seriously considering it............anyone interested in a soft-mod 9500 to 9700? ), here's a super cheap way to get an excellent workstation card:

1). Buy this card from CC:

ASUS V9900TD GeForce FX 5800 128MB w/ TV-Out $316

2). Get RivaTuner :

http://download.guru3d.com/rivatuner/

3). Get these drivers (44.90):

http://www.nvplanet.com/modules.php?nam ... tit&lid=86 (2000/XP........Win9x outta luck)

4). Apply scripts (see RivaTuner readme).



Comments:

So why not get the 5900 (or Ultra)? Apparently, Nvidia was so rushed to get the 5800 out that they left much of the fundamentals the same as their Quadro line. You can still do the 5900, but the cards are that much more expensive and you'll have better luck with the 5800. Isn't the 5800 the super hot and loud one? Yup, but look at this price difference:

ASUS V9900TD GeForce FX 5800 128MB w/ TV-Out $316

Quadrofx 2000 128mb ddr dual dvi-vga 8x agp (oem) $1979.95

I saved about $200 doing my softmod; this one saves you about $1700.

But wouldn't I want an Ati card? Actually, this is one instance where I'd actually recommend an Nvidia card (even after that friggin' stupid seminar they held yesterday). Optimizations here (and only here) are actually good. Why? They don't compromise quality (AA is done through hardware, not software) and there's only a max of about 10 workstation apps. Super optimization is good in this instance. The savings here are just massive.

There are a few drawbacks, though. Read here to find out the differences between a real and softmodded Quadro:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/wor ... /page5.asp

EDIT:

Note that Radeon 9700 owners can also softmod their card into a FireGL. The performance isn't as good as a Quadro, but the architecture is a lot closer to the real thing to the point it is a Firegl.

EDIT2:

After further reading, I'd only recommend the Nvidia solution over the Ati one if you weren't going to do a lot of AA on your work. Quadro's make the AA hardware and when one softmods to a Quadro, you need to use your CPU to do the AA. This bogs it down considerably.........well, at least compared to an actual Quadro. For me personally, I'd just mod to the FireGL X1. Now that would be cool. I'd get a $785 card for about $200.

Ok, Ok i bet this is a dumb question, but would this be an ok gaming card for the newer games.

Pretty good..........though, it still does have the leaf blower on it Granted, seeing as how CC last week had the 9700 pro for $269, it doesn't seem as sweet a deal, but that 9700's gone now. If interested, PM me and I'll get into the nitty-gritty details.

What you could do (and I'd recommend) is dual boot. Configure one OS for workstation and the other for games. That way you 'll get the speedy games drivers AND the workstation ones. Win/Win.


EDIT:

Here, you can make your card into one of the earlier Quadro's if you wanna try it out. Here's the English guide from Unwinder:

http://nvworld.ru/docs/sqe.html

Note, that if you plan to do this, you'll be stuck at a certain driver update (44.90 to be exact for the FX.......though, if you dual boot this isn't a concern) and that he's discontinuing his support of Nividia as his new test platform is a 9800 pro. Also, I have NO idea how to do this in Linux. Though, you could be the first to bring it to the masses. Think of the fame, fortune, and chicks you'd get if you learned how to softmod a geforce into a quadro in Linux.


EDIT2:

Here's the guide to changing your softmod 9500/9700(pro)/9800(pro,XT) into a Firegl X1/X2 and your 9500 pro/9600(pro, XT) into a Firegl Z1/Z2.

http://www.nvworld.ru/docs/sfgl_e.html

Here's the guide on how one changes their GF4 into a Quadro4:

http://www.nvworld.ru/docs/sq4e.html

You'll note that when AA is involved, the scores are lower. However, I *think* the 5800 has the hardware AA (ie. it mods perfectly to a QuadroFX 2000). The same guide for the GF4 applies for the FX.

Also, here's a very recent guide on the FX:

OK, there is some people that still confuse about turning their FX Cards into a QuadroFX.
This is my own analysis by using FX5800 card :
First of all, what you have to do to make a SoftQuadroFX is :
- Get a FX card (of course), in this case I found that FX5800 or FX5800Ultra has the strongest compability to QuadroFX.
- Get a 44.03 or 44.90 det (this is for FX cards only, do not use them on GF4 or lower cards, GF4 -> SQ4 only works on max. 42.51 det versions)
- Get Riva Tuner 14 from nvworld.ru or guru3d.com, run it once
- If you use FX5900 or FX5900Ultra or any other cards that are not supported in 44.03 det, copy the FX3000 "Localizable Strings" from nv4_disp at the upper det that support FX3000 (ex. 45.23 or 45.33 det), paste it in nv4_disp at 44.03 det
- copy UnpackDriver (you will see it in the Riva Tuner directory, example C:\Program Files\RivaTuner\Tools\UnpackDriver) to where you extract the 44.03 det (if you use 44.03 det), run it once
- Go to the RT -> power user -> open patch script
- You can use almost all the script to 44.03 or 44.90 det, but two script that very important are NVStrap antiprotection and SoftQuadro4 (this script has to successfully patch the nv4_mini.sys or nv4_mini.sy_, if it doesn't successfully patched or get an error message, you cannot make a SQFX)
- The most important things is install the Nvstrap driver (on customize low-level system settings), in here you can change you PCI DeviceID settings -> Graphic adapter identification -> change to Quadro (if you want a default Quadro for your card) or custom (in here you can change your card into another card, for example FX5800 -> FX5800Ultra or FX1000 -> FX2000)
- After you change the PCI DeviceID settings, turn off your RT, and restart the windows
- After restarting the windows, it will show "found a new hardware", it will be detected as a Quadro card, install the 44.03 or 44.90 det that you've been modified
- Restart the windows again after finished installing det, and you'll have a QuadroFXxxxx (depends on what FX cards you use) in your Device Manager and whatever the software you are using.
- Remember, the strongest compability for making SQFX is the FX5800 cards, it run as fast as the REAL QuadroFX, for my card as example, it runs more faster than a REAL QFX2000 in every benchmarks, I don't know about the others, but for FX5900 series seem that the AALines is still a problem to them, so some tests will have very low scores
- For more detail, you have to wait Mr. Unwinder post it on his site (nvworld.ru)

EDIT3:

Define what you mean by newer games.

Doom3 HL2 and the like

Honestly, nobody knows until they're released. Nvidia has to optimize their card for EVERY game that they want to perform well or it just plain su><ors in that app/game. So while the card will run benchmark games well, it very well could blow chunks in a less played game. For example, you might be able to get a better gaming experience outta your GF2 GTS on Lords of the Realm III if Nvidia doesn't "optimize" their driver for that game (bit of an extreme example, but it could happen).

If Homey V has all the functionality of his card in Linux, I really don't see a reason to buy a Nvidia card................as in none, nadda, not a bloody one........................unless you really like the colour green.

I'd feel safe saying that the card will run Doom ]I[ and HL2 well, but at the cost of image quality (long discussion must follow if you want to know why). If you're willing to spend $315, just add $25 and you get a 9800 non-pro. BIOS flashing it adds extra volts to the RAM and you're almost 95% guaranteed a 9800 Pro. Use Rivatuner and you basically have a $1100 CAD card (I asked Unwinder and the answer was that as long as you do it right, the chance of turning a Radeon into a Firegl is 100% with FULL functionality.......those are pretty frickin' good odds). Believe it or not, Ati's Firegl performs better in Linux than the Quadro's do, too.

Also, how much CAD/3dMax/Maya work are ya gonna do? Honestly ask yourself that question. I expect to do a little bit. Thus, my next systems hopes to be built around the following parts:

Dual Opteron 240 or 242
K8T Master2-FAR
2 gigs Corsair 3200LL ECC
softmod 9500 to Firegl

It'll be a long road to get there, but I hope to reach that after about 2 years (ask me in person how I plan to do it).

In fact, I'll let you borrow my softmoddable 9500. I'm not using it right now and you could prolly use it 'til Reading Week. Try the Ati drivers out for yourself to see if they work. Don't bash Ati's Linux support until you've put as much effort into it as you have Nvidia at least.

ATI's Linux support is nowhere near NVidia's.

I'll give them credit, they're improving.. But still not par.

Do you have the card able to run in 3d games and stuff? Or haven't you installed the module yet?

No, I havent installed the module.

Too much work to do. I dont need that kind of temptation sitting in front of me when I've got papers to write...

Fair enough.

BUT..........

.........could you do it easily if you wanted to?

WinX is built to run with Nvida. It does work with ATI but at the moment there is a preformace drop. Transgamimg is waiting for ATI to get its act togeather.

Fair enough.

If you're going to do a lot of CAD/3dMax/Maya then, yes, I would definitely recommend the card (though, you realize you have to use it in a windows environment to get the Quadro drivers which then instantly shoots down the Nvidia-Linux argument).

If you're focus is more on gaming, then I'd wait.

Offer for you to run tests with 9500 still extended.

It should take me at most 10-15 minutes to get the module loaded and everything running again.

Like I said, I just dont want that kind of temptation sitting on my desk.

I've come across a rather intersting idea, Homey B. I'll talk to you about it during the break if you remind me. You'd need a week of time, but you'd save anywhere from $20 to $150 on a vid card.

Exact method:

GeForce 4/FX -> Quadro 4/FX : The complete how-to:

GETTING THE FILES

1. You want the latest drivers that WORK STABLE for your card:

For a GeForce FX 5xx0 -> Quadro FX x/x00, that's 45.28
http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/....28_win2kxp.exe

For a GeForce Ti 4x00 -> Quadro 4 xx0 XGL, that's 42.51
http://whitebunny.demon.nl/download....51_w2k_wxp.zip

Then you also need the RivaTuner program itself, of course
- the latest version is a.t.m. "RivaTuner 2.0 RC 15 + SoftR9x00 + SoftFireGL"
Get it from Guru3D - it's under "Most Downloaded" at
http://downloads.guru3d.com/

INSTALLING RIVATUNER

2. Install it - start it - stop it - and reboot the PC
Now Windows begin to know about *.rts files as "RivaTuner patch script files"
NB. You MUST have installed Detonator drivers to get RivaTuner to work properly
- so if this is a fresh Windows installation, you MUST install Detonator drivers first
(I..e. you can't go straight to install the card as Quadro, it MUST be installed as
a standard GeForce FIRST, to get RivaTuner to work properly)

(You will use RivaTuner to patch
"nv4_mini.sys"
- a file INSIDE the driver package.
Most of the files inside are first COMPRESSED each on it's own
(e.g. "nvoglnt.dll" is compressed to "nvoglnt.dl_")
- then they have all been zipped,
either to a *.zip file,
or to a self-extracting *.exe)

UNZIPPING AND EXPANDING "NV4_MINI.SYS"

3. To get hold of the "nv4_mini.sys" file, you must
unzip the driver package ( yes, also 45.28_win2kxp.exe)
- unzip it to e.g.
C:\45.28_patched\

4a. Then you must
"expand" all the *.??_ files
copy "C:\Program Files\RivaTuner\Tools\expand\expand.exe" "C:\45.28_patched\"

4b. Then start Notepad, copy this text and paste it in:

expand -r *.??_
ren *.cf *.cfg
ren *.cp *.cpl
ren *.dl *.dll
ren *.ex *.exe
ren *.hl *.hlp
ren *.sy *.sys
ren *.tv *.tvp

Save the file as
File name: "C:\45.28_patched\ unpack.bat"
Save as type: "All files"

4c. Then double-click
C:\45.28_patched\ unpack.bat
- you should see the expanded versions of the files come in at the bottom

PATCHING "NV4_MINI.SYS"

5. Now you're ready for the patching.

5a. (SoftQuadro4 patch)
Double-click
"C:\Program Files\RivaTuner\PatchScripts\NVIDIA\SoftQuadro4\So
ftQuadro4 w2k.rts"
Click "Continue" button.
Browse to
"C:\45.28_patched\"
Double-click
"nv4_mini.sys"
Click "Yes" on the "Warning! This..."
Click "OK" on the "Information. Patch script has been successfully executed. Read log for details"
Click "Close" button.

5b. (NVStrap antiprotection patch)
Double-click
"C:\Program Files\RivaTuner\PatchScripts\NVIDIA\NVStrap antiprotection\NVStrap antiprotection w2k.rts"
Click "Continue" button.
You should already be in the folder
"C:\45.28_patched\"
..double-click
"nv4_mini.sys"
Click "OK" on the "Information. Patch script has been successfully executed. Read log for details"
Click "Close" button

(Now you have a working driver ready to installed, after you've changed your
"Graphics adapter identification" to "Quadro")

USING RIVATUNER TO INSTALL NVSTRAP DRIVER,
USING NVSTRAP TO CHANGE "GEFORCE" TO "QUADRO"

6. To do that, start RivaTuner again.
On the "Main" tab,
in the "Target adapter" field,
click the little button with an arrow, just to the right of
".................. Customize..."
Click the left-most icon on the pop-up toolbar;
"Low-level system settings"
In the new window called "Low-level system tweaks",
choose the "NVStrap driver" tab.
Click "Install" button.
Now the previously "greyed-out" roll-down menues become available.
In the "PCI DeviceID settings" field, there is one roll-down menu
- "Graphics adapter identification".
Select "Quadro".
(If there's no "Quadro" setting available, you must use "Custom" instead.
Tell me about this, and I'll help you find the correct DeviceID number)
Click "Apply" button
Click "OK" button.
Now the PC need to reboot, click "OK" on the reboot dialog box.


CANCELLING THE DETONATOR AUTO-INSTALLATION

7. When Windows after reboot comes up with
"Hey, new hardware found! Starting Add New Hardware WIZARD"
- press "Cancel".

FINDING AND REMOVING ALL OLD DETONATOR FILES

8a. Then - when in standard 640x480 (or 800x600) VGA mode,
I would locate and delete all files that were used to install the un-patched Detonators.

8b. There *may* be a "C:\NVIDIA\" folder, if so, delete it.

8c. In the "C:\Windows\inf\" folder, there are some files named
"oem2.inf" or "oem3.inf" or "oem[some_number].inf",
one of these is the old inf file used by the NON-patched Detonators.
The easiest way to get rid of it, is to search
"All files and folders"
"All or part of the file name" -> oem
"A word or phrase in the file" -> nvidia
"Look in:" -> C:\Windows\inf\
Then delete the file found.
Now you're 100% sure that Windows can not find any files belonging to the old, un-patched drivers.

USING DEVICE MANAGER TO TELL WINDOWS YOU'LL UPDATE THE DRIVER

9. Then, start the Device Manager:
Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> System
In "System Properties" window, select "Hardware" tab, then click "Device Manager" button
There should be a yellow question mark, at the sub-level of "Display adapters"
Right-click the question mark, and select "Update Driver..."

FORCING WINDOWS TO USE YOUR PATCHED DRIVERS

10a. At the first page of the "Hardware Update Wizard", select
"Install from a list or specific location (Advanced)"
Click "Next >" button

10b. At the "Please choose your search and installation options" page, select
"Don't search. I will choose the driver to install."
Click "Next >" button

10c. Now Windows don't know of any drivers at all (you removed the old ones, right)
- click "Have Disk" button,
browse your way to the
"C:\45.28_patched\" folder,
double-click the
"nv4_disp.inf" file

10d. That's it! Now you just click "OK" or "Next >" or whatever
(I don't remember the precise words)
- but now you've made sure Windows are using your patched drivers.
Just reboot the PC after the finish.

Volt mods for a 5800:

http://www.xtremeresources.com/forums/a ... 12092.html

http://www.xtremeresources.com/forums/a ... 13331.html

http://www.xtremeresources.com/forums/a ... 20882.html

http://www.xtremeresources.com/forums/a ... 26528.html