Re: General DIY For All Setups
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:27 pm
WARNING:
Don't try this--just buy the low pressure stack or a Ninja reg.
Warning out of the way.........onto the experiment.
Many of the used HPA tanks out there that one finds cheap are the PMI/Pure Energy brand. See attached image. They're not super consistent and their recharge rate isn't the best. However, they're usually quite cheap, have a TC stamp, and are "good enough." The "new" Empire regs are, basically, just Pure Energy regs rebranded.
Confusingly so, the regulators are blue and can be either high or low output. Traditionally, for Crossfire regs, red is high and blue is low. Ninja's are labelled SLP (Super Low Pressure), SHP (Super High Pressure), or are adjustable from 450 - 850psi if they're the newer style. The older, spring style Ninja's are NOT adjustable easily. Pure Energy's are both blue, the stack isn't labelled, so it could be high or low output pressure. You can't visually tell what it is. You won't know what you have until you fill it up and test the output. I test mine by taking a cheap "duckbill" ASA and putting a 1200 or 1500 psi gauge in it. They're not the most accurate, but it will give you a rough idea on the output.
Pure Energy regs use a Belleville spring to regulate output. These are also used in Ninja reg's and are great for tweaking output. Pure Energy regs are supposed to come with 2 flat shims which add 25 - 50 psi per shim. Ninja's also have these and add about 50psi per shim.
The usual arrangement of the Pure Energy Belleville stack is as follows:
)()()()()(
There are 10 cones stacked "peak" to "peak" and then "base" to "base." The 45ci/4500psi tank I bought had an output of 950 psi which, coincidentally, is great for Automags with an RT on/off. However, it was a smaller tank and wouldn't be all that useful as a high output tank. I wanted to use this tank for low pressure applications. Ie. Bob Long Vice, Smart Parts Ion, etc. Those markers have their high pressure regulator (HPR) output around 200 psi to the low pressure regulator (LPR) or solenoid. From my research, you want at least a 200 psi differential, usually, between regs. The SLP is the exception as, for whatever reason, Bob Long's G6R gets an extra 1/2 pod or pod from using that reg. It's the only marker I know of that does so and, therefore, is a limited use reg.
So a usual setup would be:
HPA tank at 850psi -> HPR at 200 psi -> LPR / solenoid at 60 psi
Ninja SLP's output around 300 psi and Ninja's adjustable reg is 450 psi on the low end. I decided to aim for the 450 psi as that would give me an extra 50 psi to avoid shootdown and around 400 psi was the traditional low pressure output of the old Angel regs. I rearranged the stack as so (ie. I flipped 2 on opposite ends to shorten the stack--symmetry is advised):
))()()()((
The reg wouldn't hold air. It kept leaking from the ASA pin. That, to me, suggests there's not enough pressure on the pin. So I tried this config (ie. I flipped 1):
)()()()(((
That lengthens the spring and now it outputs 400psi. I'll add the shim later when the tank is empty as I'm testing stuff right. Adding more shims/cones to Ninja regs has been done on air rifle forums to increase output from 850 psi up to 1500 psi or so. I wouldn't recommend that for the Pure Energy tanks as:
1. Ninja makes the SHP
2. at ~900 to 950 psi gives a nice, "control-able" RT effect
3. at ~1200 psi the RT effect will throw so much paint you'll need to remortgage your house to keep up with your paint costs
SUMMARY:
If you can find a Pure Energy tank on the cheap, you may be able to have a tank that can easily switch from a good high output application (ie. Tippmann's, Automags, etc.) to a good low output application (ie. Bob Long Vice, Smart Parts Ion, etc.) all without buying another reg. This will depend on what the reg's output is when you receive it. If it's less than 900 psi by default, you may need extra shims when trying to "sweet spot" your low output. As always, YMMV.
Don't try this--just buy the low pressure stack or a Ninja reg.
Warning out of the way.........onto the experiment.
Many of the used HPA tanks out there that one finds cheap are the PMI/Pure Energy brand. See attached image. They're not super consistent and their recharge rate isn't the best. However, they're usually quite cheap, have a TC stamp, and are "good enough." The "new" Empire regs are, basically, just Pure Energy regs rebranded.
Confusingly so, the regulators are blue and can be either high or low output. Traditionally, for Crossfire regs, red is high and blue is low. Ninja's are labelled SLP (Super Low Pressure), SHP (Super High Pressure), or are adjustable from 450 - 850psi if they're the newer style. The older, spring style Ninja's are NOT adjustable easily. Pure Energy's are both blue, the stack isn't labelled, so it could be high or low output pressure. You can't visually tell what it is. You won't know what you have until you fill it up and test the output. I test mine by taking a cheap "duckbill" ASA and putting a 1200 or 1500 psi gauge in it. They're not the most accurate, but it will give you a rough idea on the output.
Pure Energy regs use a Belleville spring to regulate output. These are also used in Ninja reg's and are great for tweaking output. Pure Energy regs are supposed to come with 2 flat shims which add 25 - 50 psi per shim. Ninja's also have these and add about 50psi per shim.
The usual arrangement of the Pure Energy Belleville stack is as follows:
)()()()()(
There are 10 cones stacked "peak" to "peak" and then "base" to "base." The 45ci/4500psi tank I bought had an output of 950 psi which, coincidentally, is great for Automags with an RT on/off. However, it was a smaller tank and wouldn't be all that useful as a high output tank. I wanted to use this tank for low pressure applications. Ie. Bob Long Vice, Smart Parts Ion, etc. Those markers have their high pressure regulator (HPR) output around 200 psi to the low pressure regulator (LPR) or solenoid. From my research, you want at least a 200 psi differential, usually, between regs. The SLP is the exception as, for whatever reason, Bob Long's G6R gets an extra 1/2 pod or pod from using that reg. It's the only marker I know of that does so and, therefore, is a limited use reg.
So a usual setup would be:
HPA tank at 850psi -> HPR at 200 psi -> LPR / solenoid at 60 psi
Ninja SLP's output around 300 psi and Ninja's adjustable reg is 450 psi on the low end. I decided to aim for the 450 psi as that would give me an extra 50 psi to avoid shootdown and around 400 psi was the traditional low pressure output of the old Angel regs. I rearranged the stack as so (ie. I flipped 2 on opposite ends to shorten the stack--symmetry is advised):
))()()()((
The reg wouldn't hold air. It kept leaking from the ASA pin. That, to me, suggests there's not enough pressure on the pin. So I tried this config (ie. I flipped 1):
)()()()(((
That lengthens the spring and now it outputs 400psi. I'll add the shim later when the tank is empty as I'm testing stuff right. Adding more shims/cones to Ninja regs has been done on air rifle forums to increase output from 850 psi up to 1500 psi or so. I wouldn't recommend that for the Pure Energy tanks as:
1. Ninja makes the SHP
2. at ~900 to 950 psi gives a nice, "control-able" RT effect
3. at ~1200 psi the RT effect will throw so much paint you'll need to remortgage your house to keep up with your paint costs
SUMMARY:
If you can find a Pure Energy tank on the cheap, you may be able to have a tank that can easily switch from a good high output application (ie. Tippmann's, Automags, etc.) to a good low output application (ie. Bob Long Vice, Smart Parts Ion, etc.) all without buying another reg. This will depend on what the reg's output is when you receive it. If it's less than 900 psi by default, you may need extra shims when trying to "sweet spot" your low output. As always, YMMV.